Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
06-27-2018, 08:57 AM,
Post: #1
Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
I could talk about Waters' statements, but I think the incident itself is worth deeper discussion.  For those who are not in the know, a member of the Trump cabinet was asked to leave a restaurant because she worked for the White House.

The issue: Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

I say yes.  There are obvious cases like when a customer owes the vendor money from a previous transaction -- like a bounced check or an over-extended tab.  One may recall the 1997 episode of Seinfeld in which Jerry's bad check was put on display at a bodega.  It was shaming as an act of revenge.  The outrage!  Larry David was clearly ahead of his time.  But I digress.  Deadbeats make for lousy customers, why not refuse service?  

That holds true for credit.  There's an institutionalized system in the US for denying service.  It's run by three [asshole] credit bureaus.  One of which was so lax with its IT security policies that it lost your personal data and then offered to sell you credit protection services.  I digress again. The level of service (or lack thereof) you can expect to receive is based on the score provided these agencies.

So what of civil rights?  I would like to think that the past 150 years of US history have been spent working toward a society of tolerance.  No, it's not perfect. It's still new.  It might be too soon.  But it's always going to be too soon until we finally just agree to do it. I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a Stars n Bars strip club that has a racist door policy or some other distasteful exercise in "liberty" but that club may exist already -- it just isn't labelled.

And let's not forget that we live in the information age. It's quite literally the best time to do this. If my local burrito shop were to refuse to serve someone, it'd be online before the close of business. And it'll spread fast. When I look for an area restaurant, Siri will show me the results and their star ratings. Call it a hunch, but I don't think the ole' Stars n Bars is going to get 5 stars.

So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS
06-27-2018, 09:05 AM,
Post: #2
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: I could talk about Waters' statements, but I think the incident itself is worth deeper discussion.  For those who are not in the know, a member of the Trump cabinet was asked to leave a restaurant because she worked for the White House.

The issue: Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

I say yes.  There are obvious cases like when a customer owes the vendor money from a previous transaction -- like a bounced check or an over-extended tab.  One may recall the 1997 episode of Seinfeld in which Jerry's bad check was put on display at a bodega.  It was shaming as an act of revenge.  The outrage!  Larry David was clearly ahead of his time.  But I digress.  Deadbeats make for lousy customers, why not refuse service?  

That holds true for credit.  There's an institutionalized system in the US for denying service.  It's run by three [asshole] credit bureaus.  One of which was so lax with its IT security policies that it lost your personal data and then offered to sell you credit protection services.  I digress again. The level of service (or lack thereof) you can expect to receive is based on the score provided these agencies.

So what of civil rights?  I would like to think that the past 150 years of US history have been spent working toward a society of tolerance.  No, it's not perfect. It's still new.  It might be too soon.  But it's always going to be too soon until we finally just agree to do it. I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a Stars n Bars strip club that has a racist door policy or some other distasteful exercise in "liberty" but that club may exist already -- it just isn't labelled.

And let's not forget that we live in the information age. It's quite literally the best time to do this. If my local burrito shop were to refuse to serve someone, it'd be online before the close of business. And it'll spread fast. When I look for an area restaurant, Siri will show me the results and their star ratings. Call it a hunch, but I don't think the ole' Stars n Bars is going to get 5 stars.

So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

Ultimately, I think the freedom to associate in public beyond the civil rights-protected classes is on whoever is engaging in the association. If that means I want to run a business that caters to only Republicans or only Democrats, that'd be my own prerogative (if I'm selling something, it seems dumb to alienate half the potential customer base, though).

I also think that civil rights-protected classes ought be extended to sexual orientation and I also think that gender is an entity distinct from sex, but that's neither here nor there.

But yeah, hurt butts or something. :/
06-27-2018, 09:10 AM,
Post: #3
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
Because White House press secretaries have historically been oppressed and targeted, right?
A massage doesn't always have to lead to sex, but if it doesn't then you're doing it wrong.
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06-27-2018, 10:56 AM,
Post: #4
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 09:10 AM)Gippy Wrote: Because White House press secretaries have historically been oppressed and targeted, right?

I don't follow.
06-27-2018, 10:59 AM,
Post: #5
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
I say yes they can deny service with certain limitations.
I have problems and personal hypocritical contractions with denial of service outside of abortion in the medical profession/pharmacy area.
06-27-2018, 11:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-27-2018, 11:22 AM by PuddleMonkey.)
Post: #6
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

When the customer is a nazi, yes.
06-27-2018, 01:55 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-27-2018, 01:58 PM by FuturDreamz.)
Post: #7
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 11:21 AM)PuddleMonkey Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

When the customer is a nazi, yes.

I would love to hear your succinct definition of a "Nazi"
06-27-2018, 04:17 PM,
Post: #8
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 10:56 AM)roo Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 09:10 AM)Gippy Wrote: Because White House press secretaries have historically been oppressed and targeted, right?

I don't follow.

Then just read Jeh’s post.
06-27-2018, 08:25 PM,
Post: #9
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 11:21 AM)PuddleMonkey Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

When the customer is a nazi, yes.

What if the customer just hates certain groups of people because of their beliefs?
06-27-2018, 08:29 PM,
Post: #10
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 10:59 AM)Kev Wrote: I say yes they can deny service with certain limitations.
I have problems and personal hypocritical contractions with denial of service outside of abortion in the medical profession/pharmacy area.

I'm not going to get into abortion, but Doctors take an oath about providing service to all people. That base is already covered.
06-27-2018, 08:31 PM,
Post: #11
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 09:05 AM)Jehannum Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: I could talk about Waters' statements, but I think the incident itself is worth deeper discussion.  For those who are not in the know, a member of the Trump cabinet was asked to leave a restaurant because she worked for the White House.

The issue: Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

I say yes.  There are obvious cases like when a customer owes the vendor money from a previous transaction -- like a bounced check or an over-extended tab.  One may recall the 1997 episode of Seinfeld in which Jerry's bad check was put on display at a bodega.  It was shaming as an act of revenge.  The outrage!  Larry David was clearly ahead of his time.  But I digress.  Deadbeats make for lousy customers, why not refuse service?  

That holds true for credit.  There's an institutionalized system in the US for denying service.  It's run by three [asshole] credit bureaus.  One of which was so lax with its IT security policies that it lost your personal data and then offered to sell you credit protection services.  I digress again. The level of service (or lack thereof) you can expect to receive is based on the score provided these agencies.

So what of civil rights?  I would like to think that the past 150 years of US history have been spent working toward a society of tolerance.  No, it's not perfect. It's still new.  It might be too soon.  But it's always going to be too soon until we finally just agree to do it. I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a Stars n Bars strip club that has a racist door policy or some other distasteful exercise in "liberty" but that club may exist already -- it just isn't labelled.

And let's not forget that we live in the information age. It's quite literally the best time to do this. If my local burrito shop were to refuse to serve someone, it'd be online before the close of business. And it'll spread fast. When I look for an area restaurant, Siri will show me the results and their star ratings. Call it a hunch, but I don't think the ole' Stars n Bars is going to get 5 stars.

So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

Ultimately, I think the freedom to associate in public beyond the civil rights-protected classes is on whoever is engaging in the association. If that means I want to run a business that caters to only Republicans or only Democrats, that'd be my own prerogative (if I'm selling something, it seems dumb to alienate half the potential customer base, though).

I also think that civil rights-protected classes ought be extended to sexual orientation and I also think that gender is an entity distinct from sex, but that's neither here nor there.

But yeah, hurt butts or something. :/

I'll take that a step further: I think if we're going to have rights-protected classes, they should include everyone.
06-27-2018, 09:34 PM,
Post: #12
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 08:25 PM)roo Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 11:21 AM)PuddleMonkey Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

When the customer is a nazi, yes.

What if the customer just hates certain groups of people because of their beliefs?

You mean like somebody refusing service to Puddles because she hates everyone she disagrees with and calls them Nazi's?
06-27-2018, 10:51 PM,
Post: #13
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
Political beliefs aren't a protected class so sure?
smapdi Wrote:I do declare that losing one's anal virginity sure is a memorable time.
06-28-2018, 12:59 AM,
Post: #14
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 09:10 AM)Gippy Wrote: Because White House press secretaries have historically been oppressed and targeted, right?

Spicer had to hide in the bushes!

The bushes!
06-28-2018, 01:03 AM,
Post: #15
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 08:31 PM)roo Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 09:05 AM)Jehannum Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: I could talk about Waters' statements, but I think the incident itself is worth deeper discussion.  For those who are not in the know, a member of the Trump cabinet was asked to leave a restaurant because she worked for the White House.

The issue: Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

I say yes.  There are obvious cases like when a customer owes the vendor money from a previous transaction -- like a bounced check or an over-extended tab.  One may recall the 1997 episode of Seinfeld in which Jerry's bad check was put on display at a bodega.  It was shaming as an act of revenge.  The outrage!  Larry David was clearly ahead of his time.  But I digress.  Deadbeats make for lousy customers, why not refuse service?  

That holds true for credit.  There's an institutionalized system in the US for denying service.  It's run by three [asshole] credit bureaus.  One of which was so lax with its IT security policies that it lost your personal data and then offered to sell you credit protection services.  I digress again. The level of service (or lack thereof) you can expect to receive is based on the score provided these agencies.

So what of civil rights?  I would like to think that the past 150 years of US history have been spent working toward a society of tolerance.  No, it's not perfect. It's still new.  It might be too soon.  But it's always going to be too soon until we finally just agree to do it. I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a Stars n Bars strip club that has a racist door policy or some other distasteful exercise in "liberty" but that club may exist already -- it just isn't labelled.

And let's not forget that we live in the information age. It's quite literally the best time to do this. If my local burrito shop were to refuse to serve someone, it'd be online before the close of business. And it'll spread fast. When I look for an area restaurant, Siri will show me the results and their star ratings. Call it a hunch, but I don't think the ole' Stars n Bars is going to get 5 stars.

So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

Ultimately, I think the freedom to associate in public beyond the civil rights-protected classes is on whoever is engaging in the association. If that means I want to run a business that caters to only Republicans or only Democrats, that'd be my own prerogative (if I'm selling something, it seems dumb to alienate half the potential customer base, though).

I also think that civil rights-protected classes ought be extended to sexual orientation and I also think that gender is an entity distinct from sex, but that's neither here nor there.

But yeah, hurt butts or something. :/

I'll take that a step further: I think if we're going to have rights-protected classes, they should include everyone.

Why should we define civil rights-protected classes based on changeable features?

Everybody has a race, everybody has a gender, everybody has a sexual orientation.

Nobody has to be a republican, nobody has to be a democrat, nobody has to be an objectivist idiot.
06-28-2018, 01:16 AM,
Post: #16
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-27-2018, 09:34 PM)Kev Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:25 PM)roo Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 11:21 AM)PuddleMonkey Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

When the customer is a nazi, yes.

What if the customer just hates certain groups of people because of their beliefs?

You mean like somebody refusing service to Puddles because she hates everyone she disagrees with and calls them Nazi's?

I don't hate people I disagree with. I just hate nazis.
06-28-2018, 02:14 AM,
Post: #17
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-28-2018, 12:59 AM)Jehannum Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 09:10 AM)Gippy Wrote: Because White House press secretaries have historically been oppressed and targeted, right?

Spicer had to hide in the bushes!

The bushes!

Cry
06-28-2018, 03:16 AM,
Post: #18
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
This thread was started with a patent untruth, and hasn’t improved since.
ClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbie
ClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbie
ClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbieClubbie
06-28-2018, 07:33 AM,
Post: #19
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-28-2018, 03:16 AM)Alien Wrote: This thread was started with a patent untruth, and hasn’t improved since.

What untruth would that be?
06-28-2018, 09:22 AM,
Post: #20
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-28-2018, 01:03 AM)Jehannum Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:31 PM)roo Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 09:05 AM)Jehannum Wrote:
(06-27-2018, 08:57 AM)roo Wrote: I could talk about Waters' statements, but I think the incident itself is worth deeper discussion.  For those who are not in the know, a member of the Trump cabinet was asked to leave a restaurant because she worked for the White House.

The issue: Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

I say yes.  There are obvious cases like when a customer owes the vendor money from a previous transaction -- like a bounced check or an over-extended tab.  One may recall the 1997 episode of Seinfeld in which Jerry's bad check was put on display at a bodega.  It was shaming as an act of revenge.  The outrage!  Larry David was clearly ahead of his time.  But I digress.  Deadbeats make for lousy customers, why not refuse service?  

That holds true for credit.  There's an institutionalized system in the US for denying service.  It's run by three [asshole] credit bureaus.  One of which was so lax with its IT security policies that it lost your personal data and then offered to sell you credit protection services.  I digress again. The level of service (or lack thereof) you can expect to receive is based on the score provided these agencies.

So what of civil rights?  I would like to think that the past 150 years of US history have been spent working toward a society of tolerance.  No, it's not perfect. It's still new.  It might be too soon.  But it's always going to be too soon until we finally just agree to do it. I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a Stars n Bars strip club that has a racist door policy or some other distasteful exercise in "liberty" but that club may exist already -- it just isn't labelled.

And let's not forget that we live in the information age. It's quite literally the best time to do this. If my local burrito shop were to refuse to serve someone, it'd be online before the close of business. And it'll spread fast. When I look for an area restaurant, Siri will show me the results and their star ratings. Call it a hunch, but I don't think the ole' Stars n Bars is going to get 5 stars.

So, Does a business owner have the right to refuse service to a customer?  

DISCUSS

Ultimately, I think the freedom to associate in public beyond the civil rights-protected classes is on whoever is engaging in the association. If that means I want to run a business that caters to only Republicans or only Democrats, that'd be my own prerogative (if I'm selling something, it seems dumb to alienate half the potential customer base, though).

I also think that civil rights-protected classes ought be extended to sexual orientation and I also think that gender is an entity distinct from sex, but that's neither here nor there.

But yeah, hurt butts or something. :/

I'll take that a step further: I think if we're going to have rights-protected classes, they should include everyone.

Why should we define civil rights-protected classes based on changeable features?

Everybody has a race, everybody has a gender, everybody has a sexual orientation.

Nobody has to be a republican, nobody has to be a democrat, nobody has to be an objectivist idiot.

Everyone has something they can't change.  I don't think some are more special than others.  And no, I don't agree with protecting poor decisions.

But perhaps protecting endangered species is a bit off topic.
06-28-2018, 09:23 AM,
Post: #21
RE: Since Maxine Waters weighed in, I should too.
(06-28-2018, 07:33 AM)Kev Wrote:
(06-28-2018, 03:16 AM)Alien Wrote: This thread was started with a patent untruth, and hasn’t improved since.

What untruth would that be?

do tell


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