Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
08-17-2017, 03:14 AM,
Post: #26
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
Maybe we should just have better laws that make illegal to support unpopular efforts. Other countries do that, right?
bedstuy Wrote:mocking a pair of $500 jeans is a form of class warfare... why do you hate my social status?
08-17-2017, 06:05 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 06:06 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #27
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
So, nazi-ism is merely unpopular? There's nothing wrong with it, per se, its just that some folks don't like it?
Tell me what you find attractive and defense-worthy about it? How does it benefit out society?
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
08-17-2017, 06:56 AM,
Post: #28
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
You really need to back off the nazi crap. The most nazi like actions were those of your side, the antifa.
That's not who you really want to be.
08-17-2017, 07:06 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 07:09 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #29
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
You're funny.
And, to quote the fearless leader, sad.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
08-17-2017, 07:47 AM,
Post: #30
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
Dude, it's the antifa that hide their faces and carry bats.
Don't be a fucktard like the losers at macstack.
08-17-2017, 07:50 AM,
Post: #31
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 06:05 AM)Gippy Wrote: So, nazi-ism is merely unpopular? There's nothing wrong with it, per se, its just that some folks don't like it?
Tell me what you find attractive and defense-worthy about it? How does it benefit out society?

I said it is unpopular.  I didn't mean to imply that that's all that it is.

So what are your criteria for atrocities of expression? What other topics besides nazism would you forbid in your dream country?
08-17-2017, 08:11 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 08:15 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #32
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 07:47 AM)Kev Wrote: Dude, it's the antifa that hide their faces and carry bats.
Don't be a fucktard like the losers at macstack.

So, the guys who brought the sheilds, bats, and guns, and celebrated the death of a protestor, but didn't cover their faces are ok. Got it. You prefer your antagonists to show skin. Oaf
08-17-2017, 08:13 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 08:37 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #33
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 07:50 AM)roo Wrote:
(08-17-2017, 06:05 AM)Gippy Wrote: So, nazi-ism is merely unpopular? There's nothing wrong with it, per se, its just that some folks don't like it?
Tell me what you find attractive and defense-worthy about it? How does it benefit out society?

I said it is unpopular.  I didn't mean to imply that that's all that it is.

So what are your criteria for atrocities of expression? What other topics besides nazism would you forbid in your dream country?

Nice backtrack.
But I need to come back to this later.
08-17-2017, 08:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 08:19 AM by Kev.)
Post: #34
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 08:11 AM)Gippy Wrote:
(08-17-2017, 07:47 AM)Kev Wrote: Dude, it's the antifa that hide their faces and carry bats.
Don't be a fucktard like the losers at macstack.

So, the guys who brought the sheilds, bats, and guns, and celebrated the death of a protestor, but didn't cover their faces are ok. Got it. You prefer your antagonists to show skin. Oaf

Actually I'm saying neither group has the moral high ground and show oppressive anti freedom and liberty with violent tendencies that should be condemned.
Cheering for the alt left isn't something you should be doing if you consider yourself to be a better man than the alt right.
08-17-2017, 08:26 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 08:29 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #35
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 08:19 AM)Kev Wrote:
(08-17-2017, 08:11 AM)Gippy Wrote:
(08-17-2017, 07:47 AM)Kev Wrote: Dude, it's the antifa that hide their faces and carry bats.
Don't be a fucktard like the losers at macstack.

So, the guys who brought the sheilds, bats, and guns, and celebrated the death of a protestor, but didn't cover their faces are ok. Got it. You prefer your antagonists to show skin. Oaf

Actually I'm saying neither group has the moral high ground and show oppressive anti freedom and liberty with violent tendencies that should be condemned.
Cheering for the alt left isn't something you should be doing if you consider yourself to be a better man than the alt right.

Alt-left is Wtf There is no alt-left.
Alt-right is racists, segregationist, white nationalists. Lets just call a bigot a bigot here.

Did I cheer for the "lefties"? Did you see that here?
I'll not apologize for a viewpoint that denounces anyone who holds a viewpoint that someone else should be seen or treated as a lesser human being just because of how they look or where they came from. There's no equivalence between someone who feels that others should be oppressed and those that feel that everybody is equal. Your false equivalence is a bullshit argument. You use it because you have nothing else.

Oaf

Whitey McPopCollar has no reason to be upset, but there he is, waving his nazi flag, disparaging blacks, gays, and everyone who looks different.
08-17-2017, 08:31 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 08:32 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #36
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
The cry of "Alt-left" is the dummies pointing and whining "lookie lookie they're bad too" to try and normalize their own behavior.
Its childish. And fitting.

Oaf
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
08-17-2017, 08:32 AM,
Post: #37
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
It's time you started educating yourself and not parroting left wing news media.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
08-17-2017, 08:42 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 08:46 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #38
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
Oh, you're on me about sucking on the media teat. That's rich.
Oaf

Antifa != Alt-left.
Oaf

Alt-left is an attempt to level the playing field between those who hate and those who would prefer people to be treated equally. Its a right wing marketing ploy (that they're admittedly very very good at).

I guess I don't understand why it is out of vogue for violent folk to get beat up. You harass someone, don't be surprised or cry when you get hit. Cry me a fucking river...

But that's not to say that they're 100% innocent of any wrong-doing.
The Berkeley incident here with Milo was a good example of that. The violence there was a minute faction that captured all of the news and gave the whiners on the right the chance to point and say "see see hit hit them too them too".

Again. Say what you want, but when your ideologies are based in hatred and oppression then you can go suck a rock. I lose any and all compassion for your fate.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
08-17-2017, 08:53 AM,
Post: #39
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 08:42 AM)Gippy Wrote: Again. Say what you want, but when your ideologies are based in hatred and oppression then you can go suck a rock. I lose any and all compassion for your fate.


If the shoe fits.
08-17-2017, 08:57 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 08:58 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #40
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
Waaa!
A notoriously violent group cries when people respond in kind.

You amaze me.

And where have I put myself behind an ideology of hate?
Tell me. You're projecting.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
08-17-2017, 10:48 AM,
Post: #41
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 08:31 AM)Gippy Wrote: normalize their own behavior.

OT: I'm surprised that the definition of normalize took a 180° turn so quickly in the hands of intellectuals.
08-17-2017, 10:52 AM,
Post: #42
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
I tend to agree that people who initiate violence are criminals. I don't think that's ever been OK, and I'd hate to think that we as a society are willing to turn a blind eye to reckless vigilantes.
bedstuy Wrote:mocking a pair of $500 jeans is a form of class warfare... why do you hate my social status?
08-17-2017, 12:13 PM,
Post: #43
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 10:48 AM)roo Wrote:
(08-17-2017, 08:31 AM)Gippy Wrote: normalize their own behavior.

OT: I'm surprised that the definition of normalize took a 180° turn so quickly in the hands of intellectuals.

How so? (asking for a friend)

(08-17-2017, 10:52 AM)roo Wrote: I tend to agree that people who initiate violence are criminals. I don't think that's ever been OK, and I'd hate to think that we as a society are willing to turn a blind eye to reckless vigilantes.

Do you really see reckless vigilantism here? Resistance, and yes, violent response, to an undeniably horrible group is vigilantism? Do you feel that the 60s would have brought the same racial progress had there been no resistance and push back (and, yes, violence)?
08-17-2017, 12:14 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-17-2017, 12:16 PM by Gippy.)
Post: #44
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 08:32 AM)Kev Wrote: It's time you started educating yourself and not parroting left wing news media.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831

Here's one we can all argue applies to our preferred viewpoint:
Quote:The paradox of tolerance is important in the discussion of what, if any, boundaries are to be set on freedom of speech. Popper asserted that to allow freedom of speech to those who would use it to eliminate the very principle upon which they rely is paradoxical. Rosenfeld states "it seems contradictory to extend freedom of speech to extremists who... if successful, ruthlessly suppress the speech of those with whom they disagree," and points out that the Western European Democracies and the United States have opposite approaches to the question of tolerance of hate speech.

And, from: https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-n...f7007d6376
Quote:Tolerance is not a moral absolute; it is a peace treaty. Tolerance is a social norm because it allows different people to live side-by-side without being at each other’s throats. It means that we accept that people may be different from us, in their customs, in their behavior, in their dress, in their sex lives, and that if this doesn’t directly affect our lives, it is none of our business. But the model of a peace treaty differs from the model of a moral precept in one simple way: the protection of a peace treaty only extends to those willing to abide by its terms. It is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
08-17-2017, 12:29 PM,
Post: #45
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
Also OT: Macstack is still a thing?
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
08-17-2017, 01:25 PM,
Post: #46
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrcB1sAN8I
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
08-17-2017, 01:30 PM,
Post: #47
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
If the "alt left" is the people who get to punch Nazis, count me in.

Because there's nothing morally dubious about punching Nazis.
"The 300ZX Turbo is a dance; it's a song; it's rolling, roaring automotive art. There is no color that doesn't suit it. There is no mood-lifting chemical substance it can't replace." - Automobile Magazine
08-17-2017, 08:39 PM,
Post: #48
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 12:13 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(08-17-2017, 10:48 AM)roo Wrote:
(08-17-2017, 08:31 AM)Gippy Wrote: normalize their own behavior.

OT: I'm surprised that the definition of normalize took a 180° turn so quickly in the hands of intellectuals.

How so? (asking for a friend)

(08-17-2017, 10:52 AM)roo Wrote: I tend to agree that people who initiate violence are criminals. I don't think that's ever been OK, and I'd hate to think that we as a society are willing to turn a blind eye to reckless vigilantes.

Do you really see reckless vigilantism here? Resistance, and yes, violent response, to an undeniably horrible group is vigilantism? Do you feel that the 60s would have brought the same racial progress had there been no resistance and push back (and, yes, violence)?


You can tell your friend that normalize once meant the process of returning to a normal state and not the process of making the current state the norm.  e.g.  I'm overworked, I need to normalize my workload before I can relax.

Your argument that violent opposition to the civil rights movement is what made it successful is worrisome, and it touches on the theme of the thread:  If violent opposition lends credence to a movement, then it'd be wiser to ignore these yahoos.
08-17-2017, 09:04 PM,
Post: #49
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 12:14 PM)Gippy Wrote: Here's one we can all argue applies to our preferred viewpoint:
Quote:The paradox of tolerance is important in the discussion of what, if any, boundaries are to be set on freedom of speech. Popper asserted that to allow freedom of speech to those who would use it to eliminate the very principle upon which they rely is paradoxical. Rosenfeld states "it seems contradictory to extend freedom of speech to extremists who... if successful, ruthlessly suppress the speech of those with whom they disagree," and points out that the Western European Democracies and the United States have opposite approaches to the question of tolerance of hate speech.

The very concept that a government provides liberty is a paradox.  We do what we can within that paradox to provide a place where the people can have as much liberty as possible, in this case, to say what they want.  I can say unpopular things.  I can even say hateful things.  I can do this by right, as we live in a society that values intellectual discourse and believes that strength lies in diversity and that the road to truth and wisdom is paved with divergent principles.

The notion that there are absolutes or that certain ideas may not be expressed is alarming to me.  I know that there were many Nazis assembled in VA.  I think they're turds. But I dare not bully them into silence with force because it sets a dangerous precedent.  In fact, silencing the populace with force is precisely the behavior that I've been taught takes place in oppressive regimes and is a symptom of tyranny.  I have always thought that that is a fundamental truth that all Americans are taught.

As for your paradox of being willing to sacrifice my freedom of speech by defending the right to freedom of speech?  I prefer to defend liberty than to attack and implement tyranny as a solution.
08-17-2017, 11:09 PM,
Post: #50
RE: Why do people get upset when fratboys with tiki torches assemble?
(08-17-2017, 08:39 PM)roo Wrote: […] normalize once meant the process of returning to a normal state and not the process of making the current state the norm.
Well... Technically, one way or the other, that is what happens.

But you are correct. The term we use for the other thing is, if you'll allow a literal translation, "norm dilution" or "norm decay".


Forum Jump: