I'm warming up to this Trump guy
02-20-2017, 05:02 AM,
Post: #1
I'm warming up to this Trump guy
As most of you probably don't give a fuck about but may have heard me mention recently, we've got a general election coming up in the Netherlands, in three weeks. And much like the rest of the free world (Germany, France, Italy, who also have elections planned for the next year or so), xenophobic populism has been on the rise, with Geert Wilders' PVV leading the polls.

Mr. Wilders almost orgastically cheered Donald Trump's victory in the US elections, much like he did the Brexit vote, congratulating the UK and US populace on "taking their country back" and enthusiastically looking forward to the same thing happening all over Europe.

And then Trump took office, and, well… we're all witness to the mess he's making, and I believe the end is not in sight. Which is having some rather welcome side-effects here in Yerp: the populists are slipping in the polls. Turns out, buddying up to Trump is giving their electorate cold feet upon seeing what a mockery of government this man is leading, and now they're having second thoughts about voting someone into power who might cause the same chaos, here.

Mind you: we've had populists (on the form of the LPF) in government here, before, some fifteen years ago. It didn't last very long until their cabinet fell, and all most people really remember from those days, was waking up every morning with a healthy feeling of, "let's see what those fuckups did today that we can have a good chuckle at." (Sound familiar? I know I am having a serious case of déjà vu.) They rarely failed to oblige: it got down to fist fights between cabinet members until the towel was chucked in the ring (by one of their coalition partners, of course) and another election was held. They were decimated and fell into irrelevance.

The populace has notoriously bad memory, of course, and if there's one thing they loathe, it's elitist scientist guys like Albert Einstein, so words like "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" mean little to them, especially when someone is promising to bring back jobs and kick out the jews darkies muslims. but I always expected it to turn out much the same way should they come to power again; after all, they haven't even been able to keep their MP's darker secrets out of the press while they're not in power, what with the collection of wife beaters and mailbox-pissers (look it up! And then know that I used to work doors as a bouncer with that guy!) they saw fit to grace the seats of our house of representatives with. I'm just glad it may be enough for another country to suffer through this ordeal to prevent us from having to deal with it, all over again.

And I can't help but feel a little smug at the populists being hoist by their own petard ("being given a cookie from their own dough," as we say in Dutch) and finding out first hand that the populace is awfully fickle. You gonna ride a wave of discontent, you better be aware there's always another wave right behind it.
02-20-2017, 05:39 AM,
Post: #2
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
How is electing an orange egotistical billionaire "taking the country back"?
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02-20-2017, 06:26 AM,
Post: #3
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Im glad our pain can make your life better.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
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02-20-2017, 08:13 AM,
Post: #4
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-20-2017, 05:39 AM)agedgruel Wrote: How is electing an orange egotistical billionaire "taking the country back"?

it serves as an example of What Not To Do. Like when the USA was in the middle of a civil war at around the same time we were drafting our constitution.
02-20-2017, 09:52 PM,
Post: #5
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
I'm glad he's in office too. Much for the same reasons. It sends a clear message to US citizens, and folks around the world.

Unfortunately, I don't think it'll make much difference either. As you say, the electorate has a short memory. I'd argue that today's liberals still have no idea why Trump was elected and why it'll probably happen again. Liberals that I talk to are usually confounded by the notion that poor people vote against social services; they chalk it up to spite or racism or stupidity.
bedstuy Wrote:mocking a pair of $500 jeans is a form of class warfare... why do you hate my social status?
02-20-2017, 11:45 PM,
Post: #6
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
It isn't spite, racism, or stupidity?
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02-21-2017, 12:36 AM,
Post: #7
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
I think there's more.
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02-21-2017, 01:11 AM,
Post: #8
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-21-2017, 12:36 AM)Alien Wrote: I think there's more.

Is it the Republican investment in education paying off?
02-21-2017, 02:00 AM,
Post: #9
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
More and more I think its just plain stupidity or ignorance. I don't think the Trump voters really put that much thought in to it. And when they did it was focused on the wrong things. They all got taken in by a con-man and one by one they're gonna have to come to terms with that. And they're starting to.

This is just another version of what's happening where my parents live. Ultra conservative fuddy duddies vote against everything they don't personally use or think is against something they believe in and have ended up with no public services, dying schools, and crumbling infrastructure with no way to pay for it. They want and want and want but what they really want is just what they want and for it to magically pay for itself. They're now getting to endure the fruits of their labor and will somehow find a way to blame it on a local government that they strangled to death.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-21-2017, 02:03 AM,
Post: #10
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-20-2017, 08:13 AM)FuturDreamz Wrote:
(02-20-2017, 05:39 AM)agedgruel Wrote: How is electing an orange egotistical billionaire "taking the country back"?

it serves as an example of What Not To Do. Like when the USA was in the middle of a civil war at around the same time we were drafting our constitution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abo6318zHew
02-21-2017, 02:40 AM,
Post: #11
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-21-2017, 02:00 AM)Gippy Wrote: More and more I think its just plain stupidity or ignorance. I don't think the Trump voters really put that much thought in to it. And when they did it was focused on the wrong things. They all got taken in by a con-man and one by one they're gonna have to come to terms with that. And they're starting to.

This is just another version of what's happening where my parents live. Ultra conservative fuddy duddies vote against everything they don't personally use or think is against something they believe in and have ended up with no public services, dying schools, and crumbling infrastructure with no way to pay for it. They want and want and want but what they really want is just what they want and for it to magically pay for itself. They're now getting to endure the fruits of their labor and will somehow find a way to blame it on a local government that they strangled to death.

"My taxes are too damn high! My elected officials told me so!"
02-23-2017, 02:10 PM,
Post: #12
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-20-2017, 09:52 PM)roo Wrote: I'm glad he's in office too. Much for the same reasons. It sends a clear message to US citizens, and folks around the world.

Unfortunately, I don't think it'll make much difference either. As you say, the electorate has a short memory. I'd argue that today's liberals still have no idea why Trump was elected and why it'll probably happen again. Liberals that I talk to are usually confounded by the notion that poor people vote against social services; they chalk it up to spite or racism or stupidity.

It couldn't possibly be that poor people want opportunity and not meager safety nets, could it?

It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

It couldn't possibly be that people are angry that globalism meant the tide rolled out and levelled most of the boats as opposed to raising them?

I mean, people couldn't simply be angry about that? Naw.

Gotta be that vast right wing conspiracy. They must be dumb. No, racists! No, duped by alt facts and fake news! SAD!!!
02-23-2017, 04:57 PM,
Post: #13
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Maybe they like being lied to. But I think they're starting to come around.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-23-2017, 05:03 PM,
Post: #14
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-23-2017, 02:10 PM)more or less Wrote: It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

I just had to call this one out as especially entertaining. There's a con-man in the White House. I think its safe to assume that they have no idea when they're being bullshitted.
02-23-2017, 09:59 PM,
Post: #15
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
If the liberals don't figure it out, they may lose again. There is a lot at stake.
bedstuy Wrote:mocking a pair of $500 jeans is a form of class warfare... why do you hate my social status?
02-23-2017, 11:04 PM,
Post: #16
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-23-2017, 05:03 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 02:10 PM)more or less Wrote: It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

I just had to call this one out as especially entertaining. There's a con-man in the White House. I think its safe to assume that they have no idea when they're being bullshitted.

Some of them are still ashamed to admit they've been conned.
02-23-2017, 11:37 PM,
Post: #17
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Roo is not wrong.
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02-24-2017, 12:03 AM,
Post: #18
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-23-2017, 11:37 PM)Alien Wrote: Roo is not wrong.

This statement is somewhat correct.
02-24-2017, 12:21 PM,
Post: #19
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
It's entirely correct. The more you call them stupid hillbilly rednecks, the less likely you stand to "progressive" leadership.
bedstuy Wrote:mocking a pair of $500 jeans is a form of class warfare... why do you hate my social status?
02-24-2017, 12:31 PM,
Post: #20
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Even if they are stupid hillbilly rednecks?
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02-24-2017, 12:45 PM,
Post: #21
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
It is weird, though, that they're starting to come around, right? I mean, seriously, Liberals give them things and they get pissed when conservatives try to take it away. But they yelled and screamed when it was being given to them.

They're more than willing to be lied to and coerced. Maybe they need to be dragged kicking and screaming in to the modern age.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-24-2017, 02:30 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-24-2017, 02:31 PM by more or less.)
Post: #22
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-23-2017, 05:03 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 02:10 PM)more or less Wrote: It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

I just had to call this one out as especially entertaining. There's a con-man in the White House. I think its safe to assume that they have no idea when they're being bullshitted.

That's an odd thing to say. I suppose you must have a clear example of said bullshit. I look forward to your intellectual elucidation on said con.

Even the left wing nutjub media was caught off-guard when he "didn't pivot" after taking office.

But yeah, keep telling yourself they were duped if that makes you feel better.
02-24-2017, 02:35 PM,
Post: #23
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 12:45 PM)Gippy Wrote: It is weird, though, that they're starting to come around, right? I mean, seriously, Liberals give them things and they get pissed when conservatives try to take it away. But they yelled and screamed when it was being given to them.

They're more than willing to be lied to and coerced. Maybe they need to be dragged kicking and screaming in to the modern age.

Defining the "they" and the lies would be the key here. And you telling me how Hillary represents the modern age would be a hoot!

She represents neoliberal globalist corporatism. I suppose that's modern, but you'd be hard pressed to decribe to me what's so good about it.

Or maybe not. Tell me, Gippy, what is best about corporatism?
02-24-2017, 03:09 PM,
Post: #24
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 12:31 PM)agedgruel Wrote: Even if they are stupid hillbilly rednecks?
All of them?
02-24-2017, 04:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-24-2017, 04:24 PM by Gippy.)
Post: #25
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 02:35 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-24-2017, 12:45 PM)Gippy Wrote: It is weird, though, that they're starting to come around, right? I mean, seriously, Liberals give them things and they get pissed when conservatives try to take it away. But they yelled and screamed when it was being given to them.

They're more than willing to be lied to and coerced. Maybe they need to be dragged kicking and screaming in to the modern age.

Defining the "they" and the lies would be the key here.  And you telling me how Hillary represents the modern age would be a hoot!

She represents neoliberal globalist corporatism.  I suppose that's modern, but you'd be hard pressed to decribe to me what's so good about it.

Or maybe not.  Tell me, Gippy, what is best about corporatism?

You should be able to determine the "they" here.
You're smart.
That you think corporatism died with Hillary's run is cute.


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