I'm warming up to this Trump guy
02-26-2017, 05:37 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-26-2017, 05:39 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #51
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
This Joseph Nye? https://twitter.com/Joe_Nye
I seem to have run across his stuff once or twice. I tend not to remember the authors unless its for a specific reason.

He and I seem to agree on a lot.

https://twitter.com/Joe_Nye/status/825495432239407106



https://twitter.com/Joe_Nye/status/815611273740222464
02-26-2017, 05:43 AM,
Post: #52
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 05:04 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 05:06 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 12:18 PM)more or less Wrote: That you'd be insipid enough to imply I think corporatism is dead is awfully cheap of you.  That you can't tell me what's so good about is at the heart of why you have no fucking clue why the pendulum swung the way it did.

Where did I say that corporatism is good? I don't think that corporatism is good. Do you think that corporatism is good? Its so weird how you thought that I thought that corporatism was such a good thing. Weird.



(02-25-2017, 12:47 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 08:55 AM)Gippy Wrote: So, the coal country voters that pulled for Trump when they know deep down that coal is dead made an informed decision?
The voters who are on the ACA that voted to repeal and replace Obamacare made an informed decision?
The voters who agreed to a wall between the US and Mexico that they're gonna now be on the hook to fund made an informed decision?
The voters who voted on the basis of defunding Planned Parenthood made an informed decision?
The voters who voted to drain the swamp made an informed decision?

Republicans have a great schtick about the downtrodden conservative in modern America. About the liberal bubble. They really do. But they're not the party of the common man. Neither are. But time after time the conservatives are fully against causes that benefit their voter base. Democrats at least push for socio-economic equality/benefit of some sort. Middle America is the bubble, not the coasts.

The Republicans are promising to prop back up the same industries that failed these workers in the first place. Democrats pushed re-training to bring these people in to the modern age. To give them modern skills that would make their areas attractive for more developing industries. The Republicans are fighting this change. It is inevitable but is also bad for the bottom line when companies have to reinvest in workers. They don't like that. Republicans play to that. Don't retrain, don't move forward, stay where you are, learn nothing, and keep doing the same old thing so that your life stays flush with manual labor. The bottom line looks better that way. Also, don't even think about taking a rich person's taxes to better the life of the common man. That's now how this is supposed to work!

The push back against the Obamacare repeal now that people realize what it means to them. Its quite sad to see. These people literally voted to increase their own hardship.

And now I hear that we hurt their feelings by calling them racist for responding to the racist/xenophobic dog whistle. I have nothing to give there. Nothing. Especially when we heard nothing from the Republicans when attacks on minorities and other religious groups started to rise during the election. Only was there outrage on the right when Christianity or Real America was attacked. Sounds to me like Real America needs a safe place so that they don't need to listen to what the world around them really thinks.

[Image: f83374ca4f770f6e80496cf65c44f9a6.jpg]

Did you just say coal is dead?  You might want to do, um, a little digging on what we are importing from China numbnuts.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more explicit for you: coal in the US is dying, if not dead. Automation and that we've gotten at all the cheaply gotten coal means that, yes, jobs are losing out to cheaper imports. Renewable energy already employs more pipples than the coal industry does. How numb are your nuts?



Quote:What is so good about the ACA that a dumb redneck hillbilly would want it?  Ask Juice how well its working for Kansas?

I dunno. You'll have to ask the dumb redneck hillbillies that are sad now that they'll lose their ACA. Maybe ask the Repubicans who claim that the angry constituents weren't real. Maybe ask the ones that pretend to be in Europe so that they don't have to talk to their constituents. I'm sure they have a totally trustworthy explanation for why it is teh sux.



Quote:The people did not vote for the wall in as much as they voted on someone doing something "concrete" about illegal immigration.  Can you tell me why a rednck would be as fond of illegal immigration as you are?

Illegal immigration flows are at a 20 year low. Again, you're projecting, I never said I was fond of 'em. I'm just not afraid of 'em like you are. Can you tell me why its such an urgent issue to you and said redneck? You're awful worked up about it but it seems we're doing pretty good on managing that border without extra "concrete" being applied. The immigration ploy is only serving to rile up the rednecks and get them to shoot a) people they think are immigrants and b) shoot each other and claim it was immigrants.

But before you have the chance, YES THERE ARE VIOLENT IMMIGRANTS. There are violent Americans, too, and they're inflicting MORE damage than the immigrants are. So maybe, just maybe, there's a different issue to be thinking of there. I dunno, what could it be...



Quote:That bullshit you just floated about failed industries was enitrely due to cheap imports, and industries exporting production (jobs) thanks to NAFTA and a large pool of acronymed trade agreements I cant begin to describe.

I was still talking about coal/energy. Those industries should be allowed to slowly die while we focus on training and education that reflect more realistic modern economies. I admit to not being a scholar on free trade, but cursory reading on the economic effects of our free trade agreements are that they're pretty much net neutral on jobs. Manufacturing will always favor developing countries with lax rules. But we're even seeing that China now coming around. They're fighting to maintain their advantage. It'll shift to some other developing nation and they'll suffer the same fate as we are. But we've already seen some industries, like the cattle industry, become dependent on free trade. And who do you think cattle ranchers like to vote for. Yep... the same people who are gonna revoke the free trade agreements and kill their exports. Since I know you're wondering, this is the only industry I have an example of. 



Quote:So tell me, what does a redneck hillbilly like best about his/her manufacturing job going to China?

Again, projection. Seems like you should be answering that.



Quote:Why don't you go down to Home Depot and see where that drywall sheetrock came from.  Then the tile.  Then the high end vinyl flooring.  Not sure about the paints, tell me where they came from?

They come from somewhere with more lax regulations and worker safety. I never disputed that. My fault for not being 100% explicit there and leaving room for your imagination to run wild.



Quote:And the blah blah racist twitterspeak is the FAKE NEWS political disotortion machines working on you.

Uh-huh. Don't tell you buy in to the fake news bullshit. You're smarter than that. It'd be a real let down if you're on board with #45's dilusions of persecution. And tell me how the hell Brietbart and InfoWars even deserves a seat at the big boy news table. Please please please tell me how legit they are.



Quote:Immigration bans on 7 countries and WAAAAHHHH ANTI IMMIGRANT WAAAH.

And here we go off the rails. Adding more shit to the pile so that you can dilute the argument. But I'll play.
The blanket ban was unconstitutional. Letting a paranoid delusional orange trample our constitution is not the way to solve problems. That is to say that there is a problem. It is hard to immigrate to this country any more. And we've had more people killed by WHITE EXTREMISM in this country than we have by any other type, but it sure makes for good news, don't it? The ban was stupid. The ban was wasteful. The ban was a distraction. But I suppose you'll blame that on fake news too, if only to just keep calling me a bedwetting liberal. So sad. Does the world look horrible through orange colored glasses?



Quote:You really yave conflated islamic terrorism with racism?  I didn't realize just how stupid you got on me because of your twittering.

Please, show me how I've conflated that. I'm all ears... and really curious too. I had no idea I could conflate those. This should be quite the educational event. School me, bro.



Quote:But bro, you are just straight lost.  No wonder you are so confused.  You, my friend, have been brainwashed by the debate in the NEWS MEDIA.

Which you seem to think represents intelligent discourse?  Are you fucking seriously this brain dead?

You have... you have bought in to the fake news argument. I'm dumbfounded that you're so teh dum, or are these just alternative viewpoints? I look forward to your enlightening words, though. I await your wisdom of how Trump, Bowling Green and the Republicans are the victims here. How you think that his corporatism is different and better than other corporatism. How his cries of "We've done nothing wrong, but that guy is fired. And so is that guy. Hey look a moose lamb ban" is good for the country and worth of American politics. We already had a credibility problem in our politics, but this sinks us to a new low. But apparently you're not seeing anything wrong here. That's quite interesting. How much are you willing to denigrate yourself here to play along? I'm so curious...

You need to entirely reframe your thoughts above.  The original position you took was that the only people that voted from Trump were redneck hillbillys that got duped.  You speak as if they should have voted for Hillary, because they were conned.

ALL of the points above were about why a redneck hillbilly would NOT vote for Hillary and WOULD vote fro Trump.

All of them are REASONS.  And ALL of them are VALID.

Jobs lost.  Industries decimated.  It's the economy stupid!  Does Hillary want to make America Great Again?  Does Hillary support insane bullshit free trade agreements that lead to job loss?

Illegals perceived as something requiring political action.  Does Hillary perceive the border as a problem?

Terrorism and Syrian refuge flight perceived as something requiring political action... is hillary going to put the "bad dudes" away?  Do you think Trumpp is going to shut down GitMo?

By the way, why is GitMo still open?  HOPEY CHANGEY

ACA perceived as a mess despite its good intention EVEN BY THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT.  Major healthcare providers are pulling out of the "market place" left and right.  How does a redneck hillbilly feel about having to change insurance policies, then loose his job to China, is now "surrounded" by and competing with new immigrants legal and otherwise for jobs, and finds his premiums went up to boot.

In fact, it seems you do not even understand the world that the redneck hillbilly Presidential election squad seems to live in.

That's all very compelling and without hyperbole. I'd like to subscribe to YOUR newsletter.

You really think that Trump is the answer? All his hyped up fear and terror? Or do you want it burnt to the ground so that we're forced to start over. 'Cause if so I really hope that this ends up with that weird utopia at the end where they're pumping the atmosphere full of calming agents and we all get to drive electric cars to Taco Bell.
02-26-2017, 05:45 AM,
Post: #53
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-20-2017, 05:02 AM)Alien Wrote: As most of you probably don't give a fuck about but may have heard me mention recently, we've got a general election coming up in the Netherlands, in three weeks. And much like the rest of the free world (Germany, France, Italy, who also have elections planned for the next year or so), xenophobic populism has been on the rise, with Geert Wilders' PVV leading the polls.

Mr. Wilders almost orgastically cheered Donald Trump's victory in the US elections, much like he did the Brexit vote, congratulating the UK and US populace on "taking their country back" and enthusiastically looking forward to the same thing happening all over Europe.

And then Trump took office, and, well… we're all witness to the mess he's making, and I believe the end is not in sight. Which is having some rather welcome side-effects here in Yerp: the populists are slipping in the polls. Turns out, buddying up to Trump is giving their electorate cold feet upon seeing what a mockery of government this man is leading, and now they're having second thoughts about voting someone into power who might cause the same chaos, here.

Mind you: we've had populists (on the form of the LPF) in government here, before, some fifteen years ago. It didn't last very long until their cabinet fell, and all most people really remember from those days, was waking up every morning with a healthy feeling of, "let's see what those fuckups did today that we can have a good chuckle at." (Sound familiar? I know I am having a serious case of déjà vu.) They rarely failed to oblige: it got down to fist fights between cabinet members until the towel was chucked in the ring (by one of their coalition partners, of course) and another election was held. They were decimated and fell into irrelevance.

The populace has notoriously bad memory, of course, and if there's one thing they loathe, it's elitist scientist guys like Albert Einstein, so words like "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" mean little to them, especially when someone is promising to bring back jobs and kick out the jews darkies muslims. but I always expected it to turn out much the same way should they come to power again; after all, they haven't even been able to keep their MP's darker secrets out of the press while they're not in power, what with the collection of wife beaters and mailbox-pissers (look it up! And then know that I used to work doors as a bouncer with that guy!) they saw fit to grace the seats of our house of representatives with. I'm just glad it may be enough for another country to suffer through this ordeal to prevent us from having to deal with it, all over again.

And I can't help but feel a little smug at the populists being hoist by their own petard ("being given a cookie from their own dough," as we say in Dutch) and finding out first hand that the populace is awfully fickle. You gonna ride a wave of discontent, you better be aware there's always another wave right behind it.

And to more directly address your points, the people who elected Trump are decidedly not disappointed.  The so-called mockery made about Trump would be mostly reported by the same FAKE NEWS that angry redneck hillbillys wouldn't give two shits about.

So it is interesting that the liberal propaganda machine is having an impact over there.

Over here, they are more interested in where the wall will be more like a fenced off DMZ monitored by drones equipped with blowtorches.
02-26-2017, 05:46 AM,
Post: #54
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 05:37 AM)Gippy Wrote: This Joseph Nye? https://twitter.com/Joe_Nye
I seem to have run across his stuff once or twice. I tend not to remember the authors unless its for a specific reason.

He and I seem to agree on a lot.

https://twitter.com/Joe_Nye/status/825495432239407106



https://twitter.com/Joe_Nye/status/815611273740222464

TWITTERLOL
02-26-2017, 05:58 AM,
Post: #55
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 05:45 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-20-2017, 05:02 AM)Alien Wrote: As most of you probably don't give a fuck about but may have heard me mention recently, we've got a general election coming up in the Netherlands, in three weeks. And much like the rest of the free world (Germany, France, Italy, who also have elections planned for the next year or so), xenophobic populism has been on the rise, with Geert Wilders' PVV leading the polls.

Mr. Wilders almost orgastically cheered Donald Trump's victory in the US elections, much like he did the Brexit vote, congratulating the UK and US populace on "taking their country back" and enthusiastically looking forward to the same thing happening all over Europe.

And then Trump took office, and, well… we're all witness to the mess he's making, and I believe the end is not in sight. Which is having some rather welcome side-effects here in Yerp: the populists are slipping in the polls. Turns out, buddying up to Trump is giving their electorate cold feet upon seeing what a mockery of government this man is leading, and now they're having second thoughts about voting someone into power who might cause the same chaos, here.

Mind you: we've had populists (on the form of the LPF) in government here, before, some fifteen years ago. It didn't last very long until their cabinet fell, and all most people really remember from those days, was waking up every morning with a healthy feeling of, "let's see what those fuckups did today that we can have a good chuckle at." (Sound familiar? I know I am having a serious case of déjà vu.) They rarely failed to oblige: it got down to fist fights between cabinet members until the towel was chucked in the ring (by one of their coalition partners, of course) and another election was held. They were decimated and fell into irrelevance.

The populace has notoriously bad memory, of course, and if there's one thing they loathe, it's elitist scientist guys like Albert Einstein, so words like "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" mean little to them, especially when someone is promising to bring back jobs and kick out the jews darkies muslims. but I always expected it to turn out much the same way should they come to power again; after all, they haven't even been able to keep their MP's darker secrets out of the press while they're not in power, what with the collection of wife beaters and mailbox-pissers (look it up! And then know that I used to work doors as a bouncer with that guy!) they saw fit to grace the seats of our house of representatives with. I'm just glad it may be enough for another country to suffer through this ordeal to prevent us from having to deal with it, all over again.

And I can't help but feel a little smug at the populists being hoist by their own petard ("being given a cookie from their own dough," as we say in Dutch) and finding out first hand that the populace is awfully fickle. You gonna ride a wave of discontent, you better be aware there's always another wave right behind it.

And to more directly address your points, the people who elected Trump are decidedly not disappointed.  The so-called mockery made about Trump would be mostly reported by the same FAKE NEWS that angry redneck hillbillys wouldn't give two shits about.

So it is interesting that the liberal propaganda machine is having an impact over there.

Over here, they are more interested in where the wall will be more like a fenced off DMZ monitored by drones equipped with blowtorches.

I'll see your TWITTERLOL and raise you an INFOWARSLOL
02-26-2017, 05:59 AM,
Post: #56
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 05:43 AM)Gippy Wrote: That's all very compelling and without hyperbole. I'd like to subscribe to YOUR newsletter.

You really think that Trump is the answer? All his hyped up fear and terror? Or do you want it burnt to the ground so that we're forced to start over. 'Cause if so I really hope that this ends up with that weird utopia at the end where they're pumping the atmosphere full of calming agents and we all get to drive electric cars to Taco Bell.

Well I don't think anyone was conned, just to be clear.  I also don't think he hyped up any fear or terror or racism.

Again the reality you live in is the one reported by the media outlets you subscribe to.  Trump wants to take action on a potential Syrian refugee problem, the illegal alien problem, and he gets painted as a racist and fear monger by the elitist leftwing propaganda machine, and you subscribe to that.

The weird utopia I don't buy into is the one with free trade agreements, open borders, and a long term end game to abolish the concept of the nation-state.

But then unlike you I've read Joseph Nye's books, and have been since around 1987 or so.  He was quite right about Soft Power.  But when you see who he advised in the 90's it gets a bit trickier.

So paste the below into google and see what happens!

neoliberal corporatism globalism v neorealism

and then for real fun, find out what platonic conservatism is about in political discourse
02-26-2017, 06:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-26-2017, 08:06 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #57
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Heh. Syrian immigration is a boogey man created to rile up the base. As is the illegal alien problem. Its a distraction and a waste of time. There's already enough protections in place that the travel ban was purely a smoke screen. A diversion. ICE has been on deportation spree's all throughout the Obama admin. You see enhanced security and I see an already flailing president trying to look effective by putting a band aid on a non-existent cut.

What is the Syrian refugee problem? What is the illegal alien problem? I've already said that Mexican illegal immigration is at a 20 year low. We're deporting people like crazy for the last 6+ years. Refugees go through a 1-2 year immigration process with 14+ agencies. So I'm curious to why these issues are top of the ticket when the economy is so important. All Cheeto Mussolini has done is waste time, money and mobilize a huge base against him.

I spend more time shitting than he does in security briefings. Could I become an expert in the Syrian and Immigration problems in that amount of time?

The reality we both live in is heavily influenced by the media we consume, there's no disputing that. I get this every time I call my parents. They're stuck in the Fox bubble (my dad claims to watch other channels but all I ever hear from them all the same old bullshit talking points that show up on Faux News, and now in our President's Twitter rants, LOL). I can tell what you've been listening too. But we're also seeing a president trying to restrain the media, create distractions, and modify the story from behind his bully pulpit. And people, dare I say like you, are lapping it up. He's hiding. I just hope that when it does come to light you're not still spewing the FAKE NEWS diatribe.

You can point to a ton of scholarly articles, there's a lot of good shit out there, but this administration has given us no indication that it knows what its doing or even why its doing it. All we've seen is smoke, mirrors, corporatism, cronyism and lies. I don't care about Hillary any more. That ship has sailed. Put conservative on the ticket who actually makes sense and I'll listen. I owe no allegiance to any party. I just have what my pea brain tells me is right and wrong. Do you have any evidence that this administration is following Nye's writings?
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-26-2017, 11:57 AM,
Post: #58
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 06:43 AM)Gippy Wrote: Heh. Syrian immigration is a boogey man created to rile up the base. As is the illegal alien problem. Its a distraction and a waste of time. There's already enough protections in place that the travel ban was purely a smoke screen. A diversion. ICE has been on deportation spree's all throughout the Obama admin. You see enhanced security and I see an already flailing president trying to look effective by putting a band aid on a non-existent cut.

What is the Syrian refugee problem? What is the illegal alien problem? I've already said that Mexican illegal immigration is at a 20 year low. We're deporting people like crazy for the last 6+ years. Refugees go through a 1-2 year immigration process with 14+ agencies. So I'm curious to why these issues are top of the ticket when the economy is so important. All Cheeto Mussolini has done is waste time, money and mobilize a huge base against him.

I spend more time shitting than he does in security briefings. Could I become an expert in the Syrian and Immigration problems in that amount of time?

The reality we both live in is heavily influenced by the media we consume, there's no disputing that. I get this every time I call my parents. They're stuck in the Fox bubble (my dad claims to watch other channels but all I ever hear from them all the same old bullshit talking points that show up on Faux News, and now in our President's Twitter rants, LOL). I can tell what you've been listening too. But we're also seeing a president trying to restrain the media, create distractions, and modify the story from behind his bully pulpit. And people, dare I say like you, are lapping it up. He's hiding. I just hope that when it does come to light you're not still spewing the FAKE NEWS diatribe.

You can point to a ton of scholarly articles, there's a lot of good shit out there, but this administration has given us no indication that it knows what its doing or even why its doing it. All we've seen is smoke, mirrors, corporatism, cronyism and lies. I don't care about Hillary any more. That ship has sailed. Put conservative on the ticket who actually makes sense and I'll listen. I owe no allegiance to any party. I just have what my pea brain tells me is right and wrong. Do you have any evidence that this administration is following Nye's writings?

The Syrian issue is ISIS.  Virtually every terror incident in Europe from the past two years have been recent Syrian refugees either not on watch lists, or with fake passports (not to mention thwarted attacks).  That said we only allowed about 4000 refugees in because even Obama wasn't that stupid.  He just lied to your face about GitMo and started escalating drone warfare while letting ISIS run amok and then allowing Russia to step in.  Oh and there chaos all over North Africa now but no one gives a shit really.

Again if you don't undstand the ILLEGAL part of illegal aliens I'm not wasting any more time on it.

You spend more time shitting than you do reading scholarly articles, and I don't giv a rat's ass what you think of Trump as I still don't really know what he's about yet.

As for neoliberalism, you really do need t get it as ts at the core of political economic theory.

Quote:During the 1990s, the Clinton Administration also embraced neoliberalism[70] by supporting the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement, continuing the deregulation of the financial sector through passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, and implementing cuts to the welfare state through passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.[78][80][81] The neoliberalism of the Clinton Administration differs from that of Reagan, as the Clinton Administration purged neoliberalism of neoconservative positions on militarism, family values, opposition to multiculturalism and neglect of ecological issues.[69]:50–1[disputed ]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

So how much you read is up to you, but if you ever hear the term the New Left this is what they meant.

I use the term pejoratively and like to think of them as market evangelicals.  I am not now, nor have I ever been on board with it.  In Europe it saved the left from socialism, however in America it made the left harder to tell apart from the right.

I am a neorealist and don't buy into the assumptions at the core of neoliberalism, but unfortunatlely its the dominat theme in IR and forms the framework behind most policy, both domestic and international.
02-26-2017, 12:36 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-26-2017, 12:39 PM by more or less.)
Post: #59
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
See this is EXACTLY what I am getting at:

Quote:"I called the fake news the enemy of the people," Trump said. "They are the enemy of the people, because they have no sources. They just make them up when there are none."

And during a Thursday discussion, White House chief strategist Bannon continued to label the media as "the opposition party."
"If you look at the opposition party, how they portrayed the campaign, how they portrayed the transition, how they portray the administration, it's always wrong," he said. "The corporatist, globalist media is adamantly opposed to economic nationalist agenda like Donald Trump has."

That's from an article about Trump's  CPAC speech that I plucked from my news reader.  Source is The Hill iirc.

I need to know more about this Bannon guy, because he is talking my talk. Trump may turn out to be something no one really expects.
02-26-2017, 01:05 PM,
Post: #60
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
*cough* (details)

(02-26-2017, 05:04 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 05:06 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 12:18 PM)more or less Wrote: That you'd be insipid enough to imply I think corporatism is dead is awfully cheap of you.  That you can't tell me what's so good about is at the heart of why you have no fucking clue why the pendulum swung the way it did.

Where did I say that corporatism is good? I don't think that corporatism is good. Do you think that corporatism is good? Its so weird how you thought that I thought that corporatism was such a good thing. Weird.




(02-25-2017, 12:47 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 08:55 AM)Gippy Wrote: So, the coal country voters that pulled for Trump when they know deep down that coal is dead made an informed decision?
The voters who are on the ACA that voted to repeal and replace Obamacare made an informed decision?
The voters who agreed to a wall between the US and Mexico that they're gonna now be on the hook to fund made an informed decision?
The voters who voted on the basis of defunding Planned Parenthood made an informed decision?
The voters who voted to drain the swamp made an informed decision?

Republicans have a great schtick about the downtrodden conservative in modern America. About the liberal bubble. They really do. But they're not the party of the common man. Neither are. But time after time the conservatives are fully against causes that benefit their voter base. Democrats at least push for socio-economic equality/benefit of some sort. Middle America is the bubble, not the coasts.

The Republicans are promising to prop back up the same industries that failed these workers in the first place. Democrats pushed re-training to bring these people in to the modern age. To give them modern skills that would make their areas attractive for more developing industries. The Republicans are fighting this change. It is inevitable but is also bad for the bottom line when companies have to reinvest in workers. They don't like that. Republicans play to that. Don't retrain, don't move forward, stay where you are, learn nothing, and keep doing the same old thing so that your life stays flush with manual labor. The bottom line looks better that way. Also, don't even think about taking a rich person's taxes to better the life of the common man. That's now how this is supposed to work!

The push back against the Obamacare repeal now that people realize what it means to them. Its quite sad to see. These people literally voted to increase their own hardship.

And now I hear that we hurt their feelings by calling them racist for responding to the racist/xenophobic dog whistle. I have nothing to give there. Nothing. Especially when we heard nothing from the Republicans when attacks on minorities and other religious groups started to rise during the election. Only was there outrage on the right when Christianity or Real America was attacked. Sounds to me like Real America needs a safe place so that they don't need to listen to what the world around them really thinks.

[Image: f83374ca4f770f6e80496cf65c44f9a6.jpg]

Did you just say coal is dead?  You might want to do, um, a little digging on what we are importing from China numbnuts.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more explicit for you: coal in the US is dying, if not dead. Automation and that we've gotten at all the cheaply gotten coal means that, yes, jobs are losing out to cheaper imports. Renewable energy already employs more pipples than the coal industry does. How numb are your nuts?




Quote:What is so good about the ACA that a dumb redneck hillbilly would want it?  Ask Juice how well its working for Kansas?

I dunno. You'll have to ask the dumb redneck hillbillies that are sad now that they'll lose their ACA. Maybe ask the Repubicans who claim that the angry constituents weren't real. Maybe ask the ones that pretend to be in Europe so that they don't have to talk to their constituents. I'm sure they have a totally trustworthy explanation for why it is teh sux.




Quote:The people did not vote for the wall in as much as they voted on someone doing something "concrete" about illegal immigration.  Can you tell me why a rednck would be as fond of illegal immigration as you are?

Illegal immigration flows are at a 20 year low. Again, you're projecting, I never said I was fond of 'em. I'm just not afraid of 'em like you are. Can you tell me why its such an urgent issue to you and said redneck? You're awful worked up about it but it seems we're doing pretty good on managing that border without extra "concrete" being applied. The immigration ploy is only serving to rile up the rednecks and get them to shoot a) people they think are immigrants and b) shoot each other and claim it was immigrants.

But before you have the chance, YES THERE ARE VIOLENT IMMIGRANTS. There are violent Americans, too, and they're inflicting MORE damage than the immigrants are. So maybe, just maybe, there's a different issue to be thinking of there. I dunno, what could it be...




Quote:That bullshit you just floated about failed industries was enitrely due to cheap imports, and industries exporting production (jobs) thanks to NAFTA and a large pool of acronymed trade agreements I cant begin to describe.

I was still talking about coal/energy. Those industries should be allowed to slowly die while we focus on training and education that reflect more realistic modern economies. I admit to not being a scholar on free trade, but cursory reading on the economic effects of our free trade agreements are that they're pretty much net neutral on jobs. Manufacturing will always favor developing countries with lax rules. But we're even seeing that China now coming around. They're fighting to maintain their advantage. It'll shift to some other developing nation and they'll suffer the same fate as we are. But we've already seen some industries, like the cattle industry, become dependent on free trade. And who do you think cattle ranchers like to vote for. Yep... the same people who are gonna revoke the free trade agreements and kill their exports. Since I know you're wondering, this is the only industry I have an example of. 




Quote:So tell me, what does a redneck hillbilly like best about his/her manufacturing job going to China?

Again, projection. Seems like you should be answering that.




Quote:Why don't you go down to Home Depot and see where that drywall sheetrock came from.  Then the tile.  Then the high end vinyl flooring.  Not sure about the paints, tell me where they came from?

They come from somewhere with more lax regulations and worker safety. I never disputed that. My fault for not being 100% explicit there and leaving room for your imagination to run wild.




Quote:And the blah blah racist twitterspeak is the FAKE NEWS political disotortion machines working on you.

Uh-huh. Don't tell you buy in to the fake news bullshit. You're smarter than that. It'd be a real let down if you're on board with #45's dilusions of persecution. And tell me how the hell Brietbart and InfoWars even deserves a seat at the big boy news table. Please please please tell me how legit they are.




Quote:Immigration bans on 7 countries and WAAAAHHHH ANTI IMMIGRANT WAAAH.

And here we go off the rails. Adding more shit to the pile so that you can dilute the argument. But I'll play.
The blanket ban was unconstitutional. Letting a paranoid delusional orange trample our constitution is not the way to solve problems. That is to say that there is a problem. It is hard to immigrate to this country any more. And we've had more people killed by WHITE EXTREMISM in this country than we have by any other type, but it sure makes for good news, don't it? The ban was stupid. The ban was wasteful. The ban was a distraction. But I suppose you'll blame that on fake news too, if only to just keep calling me a bedwetting liberal. So sad. Does the world look horrible through orange colored glasses?




Quote:You really yave conflated islamic terrorism with racism?  I didn't realize just how stupid you got on me because of your twittering.

Please, show me how I've conflated that. I'm all ears... and really curious too. I had no idea I could conflate those. This should be quite the educational event. School me, bro.




Quote:But bro, you are just straight lost.  No wonder you are so confused.  You, my friend, have been brainwashed by the debate in the NEWS MEDIA.

Which you seem to think represents intelligent discourse?  Are you fucking seriously this brain dead?

You have... you have bought in to the fake news argument. I'm dumbfounded that you're so teh dum, or are these just alternative viewpoints? I look forward to your enlightening words, though. I await your wisdom of how Trump, Bowling Green and the Republicans are the victims here. How you think that his corporatism is different and better than other corporatism. How his cries of "We've done nothing wrong, but that guy is fired. And so is that guy. Hey look a moose lamb ban" is good for the country and worth of American politics. We already had a credibility problem in our politics, but this sinks us to a new low. But apparently you're not seeing anything wrong here. That's quite interesting. How much are you willing to denigrate yourself here to play along? I'm so curious...

You need to entirely reframe your thoughts above.  The original position you took was that the only people that voted from Trump were redneck hillbillys that got duped.  You speak as if they should have voted for Hillary, because they were conned.

ALL of the points above were about why a redneck hillbilly would NOT vote for Hillary and WOULD vote fro Trump.

All of them are REASONS.  And ALL of them are VALID.

Jobs lost.  Industries decimated.  It's the economy stupid!  Does Hillary want to make America Great Again?  Does Hillary support insane bullshit free trade agreements that lead to job loss?

Illegals perceived as something requiring political action.  Does Hillary perceive the border as a problem?

Terrorism and Syrian refuge flight perceived as something requiring political action... is hillary going to put the "bad dudes" away?  Do you think Trumpp is going to shut down GitMo?

By the way, why is GitMo still open?  HOPEY CHANGEY

ACA perceived as a mess despite its good intention EVEN BY THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT.  Major healthcare providers are pulling out of the "market place" left and right.  How does a redneck hillbilly feel about having to change insurance policies, then loose his job to China, is now "surrounded" by and competing with new immigrants legal and otherwise for jobs, and finds his premiums went up to boot.

In fact, it seems you do not even understand the world that the redneck hillbilly Presidential election squad seems to live in.
[Image: 4594613.jpg]
02-26-2017, 03:57 PM,
Post: #61
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 12:36 PM)more or less Wrote: See this is EXACTLY what I am getting at:


Quote:"I called the fake news the enemy of the people," Trump said. "They are the enemy of the people, because they have no sources. They just make them up when there are none."

And during a Thursday discussion, White House chief strategist Bannon continued to label the media as "the opposition party."
"If you look at the opposition party, how they portrayed the campaign, how they portrayed the transition, how they portray the administration, it's always wrong," he said. "The corporatist, globalist media is adamantly opposed to economic nationalist agenda like Donald Trump has."

That's from an article about Trump's  CPAC speech that I plucked from my news reader.  Source is The Hill iirc.

I need to know more about this Bannon guy, because he is talking my talk.  Trump may turn out to be something no one really expects.

Mr Bannon once proudly described Breitbart as the “platform for the alt right”. Alt Right essentially refers to the online white supremacist movement.
Mr Bannon is also openly sympathetic to other bigots, including the Le Pen family in France, who head up the Front National.

Are you still confused about where the racist undertones/accusations come from?
02-26-2017, 04:37 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-26-2017, 04:50 PM by Gippy.)
Post: #62
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 11:57 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 06:43 AM)Gippy Wrote: Heh. Syrian immigration is a boogey man created to rile up the base. As is the illegal alien problem. Its a distraction and a waste of time. There's already enough protections in place that the travel ban was purely a smoke screen. A diversion. ICE has been on deportation spree's all throughout the Obama admin. You see enhanced security and I see an already flailing president trying to look effective by putting a band aid on a non-existent cut.

What is the Syrian refugee problem? What is the illegal alien problem? I've already said that Mexican illegal immigration is at a 20 year low. We're deporting people like crazy for the last 6+ years. Refugees go through a 1-2 year immigration process with 14+ agencies. So I'm curious to why these issues are top of the ticket when the economy is so important. All Cheeto Mussolini has done is waste time, money and mobilize a huge base against him.

I spend more time shitting than he does in security briefings. Could I become an expert in the Syrian and Immigration problems in that amount of time?

The reality we both live in is heavily influenced by the media we consume, there's no disputing that. I get this every time I call my parents. They're stuck in the Fox bubble (my dad claims to watch other channels but all I ever hear from them all the same old bullshit talking points that show up on Faux News, and now in our President's Twitter rants, LOL). I can tell what you've been listening too. But we're also seeing a president trying to restrain the media, create distractions, and modify the story from behind his bully pulpit. And people, dare I say like you, are lapping it up. He's hiding. I just hope that when it does come to light you're not still spewing the FAKE NEWS diatribe.

You can point to a ton of scholarly articles, there's a lot of good shit out there, but this administration has given us no indication that it knows what its doing or even why its doing it. All we've seen is smoke, mirrors, corporatism, cronyism and lies. I don't care about Hillary any more. That ship has sailed. Put conservative on the ticket who actually makes sense and I'll listen. I owe no allegiance to any party. I just have what my pea brain tells me is right and wrong. Do you have any evidence that this administration is following Nye's writings?

The Syrian issue is ISIS.  Virtually every terror incident in Europe from the past two years have been recent Syrian refugees either not on watch lists, or with fake passports (not to mention thwarted attacks).  That said we only allowed about 4000 refugees in because even Obama wasn't that stupid.  He just lied to your face about GitMo and started escalating drone warfare while letting ISIS run amok and then allowing Russia to step in.  Oh and there chaos all over North Africa now but no one gives a shit really.

So you're afraid of the small group that sneaks in as refugees? Or are you afraid of all of 'em? Also, link 'cause I don't want to rehash what's already been written: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017...ocess.html

Quote:According to the State Department, "the total processing time varies depending on an applicant's location and other circumstances, but the average time from the initial [U.N. Refugee Agency] referral to arrival as a refugee in the United States is about 18-24 months."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/u.s.-a...le/2594009

Also: Nice Gitmo mention. Barry tried to close down Gitmo. He failed. But he tried... Trump already has plans to put in gold plated faucets, raise the rent, and pack it to the gills. Which plan was better? Wait, you don't need to answer that.

Quote:Again if you don't undstand the ILLEGAL part of illegal aliens I'm not wasting any more time on it.

'kay.  In my defense: Illegal is a hard word.

Quote:You spend more time shitting than you do reading scholarly articles, and I don't giv a rat's ass what you think of Trump as I still don't really know what he's about yet.

You're right. Care to talk about cryptographically secure data transmission, you uneducated luddite? See, I can sound smart too. (I probably shouldn't have included this taunt. I don't think my brain could handle this technical an argument right now).

He's a con-man. He told you everything you needed to know about him during the election. So if you don't know what he's about yet that you probably can't tell me how Trump's golf game is coming along. And you probably haven't gotten to take a photo with his nuclear football carrier yet. So sad. Maybe there's still time for him to invite you to his dinner table to review secure memos. Oh, wait, that's a backhanded attempt to get you to care... damn.

Quote:As for neoliberalism, you really do need t get it as ts at the core of political economic theory.


Quote:During the 1990s, the Clinton Administration also embraced neoliberalism[70] by supporting the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement, continuing the deregulation of the financial sector through passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, and implementing cuts to the welfare state through passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.[78][80][81] The neoliberalism of the Clinton Administration differs from that of Reagan, as the Clinton Administration purged neoliberalism of neoconservative positions on militarism, family values, opposition to multiculturalism and neglect of ecological issues.[69]:50–1[disputed ]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

So how much you read is up to you, but if you ever hear the term the New Left this is what they meant.

Hm. Lazy me. I will never read that for fear that I might actually learn something. You're right. Where's the hole in the sand I've been keeping my head?

Quote:I use the term pejoratively and like to think of them as market evangelicals.  I am not now, nor have I ever been on board with it.  In Europe it saved the left from socialism, however in America it made the left harder to tell apart from the right.

I am a neorealist and don't buy into the assumptions at the core of neoliberalism, but unfortunatlely its the dominat theme in IR and forms the framework behind most policy, both domestic and international.

Good for you. Bonus points for "pejoratively".
02-27-2017, 01:24 AM,
Post: #63
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 03:57 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 12:36 PM)more or less Wrote: See this is EXACTLY what I am getting at:



Quote:"I called the fake news the enemy of the people," Trump said. "They are the enemy of the people, because they have no sources. They just make them up when there are none."

And during a Thursday discussion, White House chief strategist Bannon continued to label the media as "the opposition party."
"If you look at the opposition party, how they portrayed the campaign, how they portrayed the transition, how they portray the administration, it's always wrong," he said. "The corporatist, globalist media is adamantly opposed to economic nationalist agenda like Donald Trump has."

That's from an article about Trump's  CPAC speech that I plucked from my news reader.  Source is The Hill iirc.

I need to know more about this Bannon guy, because he is talking my talk.  Trump may turn out to be something no one really expects.

Mr Bannon once proudly described Breitbart as the “platform for the alt right”. Alt Right essentially refers to the online white supremacist movement.
Mr Bannon is also openly sympathetic to other bigots, including the Le Pen family in France, who head up the Front National.

Are you still confused about where the racist undertones/accusations come from?

It's all the compelling links, sources and references that read like FAKE NEWS.  I do enjoy your Alt-Facts though.

Wouldn't happen to have a link for any of that would you?
02-27-2017, 01:45 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-27-2017, 07:26 AM by more or less.)
Post: #64
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 04:37 PM)n g Gippy Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 11:57 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 06:43 AM)Gippy Wrote: Heh. Syrian immigration is a boogey man created to rile up the base. As is the illegal alien problem. Its a distraction and a waste of time. There's already enough protections in place that the travel ban was purely a smoke screen. A diversion. ICE has been on deportation spree's all throughout the Obama admin. You see enhanced security and I see an already flailing president trying to look effective by putting a band aid on a non-existent cut.

What is the Syrian refugee problem? What is the illegal alien problem? I've already said that Mexican illegal immigration is at a 20 year low. We're deporting people like crazy for the last 6+ years. Refugees go through a 1-2 year immigration process with 14+ agencies. So I'm curious to why these issues are top of the ticket when the economy is so important. All Cheeto Mussolini has done is waste time, money and mobilize a huge base against him.

I spend more time shitting than he does in security briefings. Could I become an expert in the Syrian and Immigration problems in that amount of time?

The reality we both live in is heavily influenced by the media we consume, there's no disputing that. I get this every time I call my parents. They're stuck in the Fox bubble (my dad claims to watch other channels but all I ever hear from them all the same old bullshit talking points that show up on Faux News, and now in our President's Twitter rants, LOL). I can tell what you've been listening too. But we're also seeing a president trying to restrain the media, create distractions, and modify the story from behind his bully pulpit. And people, dare I say like you, are lapping it up. He's hiding. I just hope that when it does come to light you're not still spewing the FAKE NEWS diatribe.

You can point to a ton of scholarly articles, there's a lot of good shit out there, but this administration has given us no indication that it knows what its doing or even why its doing it. All we've seen is smoke, mirrors, corporatism, cronyism and lies. I don't care about Hillary any more. That ship has sailed. Put conservative on the ticket who actually makes sense and I'll listen. I owe no allegiance to any party. I just have what my pea brain tells me is right and wrong. Do you have any evidence that this administration is following Nye's writings?

The Syrian issue is ISIS.  Virtually every terror incident in Europe from the past two years have been recent Syrian refugees either not on watch lists, or with fake passports (not to mention thwarted attacks).  That said we only allowed about 4000 refugees in because even Obama wasn't that stupid.  He just lied to your face about GitMo and started escalating drone warfare while letting ISIS run amok and then allowing Russia to step in.  Oh and there chaos all over North Africa now but no one gives a shit really.

So you're afraid of the small group that sneaks in as refugees? Or are you afraid of all of 'em? Also, link 'cause I don't want to rehash what's already been written: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017...ocess.html


Quote:According to the State Department, "the total processing time varies depending on an applicant's location and other circumstances, but the average time from the initial [U.N. Refugee Agency] referral to arrival as a refugee in the United States is about 18-24 months."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/u.s.-a...le/2594009

Also: Nice Gitmo mention. Barry tried to close down Gitmo. He failed. But he tried... Trump already has plans to put in gold plated faucets, raise the rent, and pack it to the gills. Which plan was better? Wait, you don't need to answer that.


Quote:Again if you don't undstand the ILLEGAL part of illegal aliens I'm not wasting any more time on it.

'kay.  In my defense: Illegal is a hard word.


Quote:You spend more time shitting than you do reading scholarly articles, and I don't giv a rat's ass what you think of Trump as I still don't really know what he's about yet.

You're right. Care to talk about cryptographically secure data transmission, you uneducated luddite? See, I can sound smart too. (I probably shouldn't have included this taunt. I don't think my brain could handle this technical an argument right now).

He's a con-man. He told you everything you needed to know about him during the election. So if you don't know what he's about yet that you probably can't tell me how Trump's golf game is coming along. And you probably haven't gotten to take a photo with his nuclear football carrier yet. So sad. Maybe there's still time for him to invite you to his dinner table to review secure memos. Oh, wait, that's a backhanded attempt to get you to care... damn.


Quote:As for neoliberalism, you really do need t get it as ts at the core of political economic theory.



Quote:During the 1990s, the Clinton Administration also embraced neoliberalism[70] by supporting the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement, continuing the deregulation of the financial sector through passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, and implementing cuts to the welfare state through passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.[78][80][81] The neoliberalism of the Clinton Administration differs from that of Reagan, as the Clinton Administration purged neoliberalism of neoconservative positions on militarism, family values, opposition to multiculturalism and neglect of ecological issues.[69]:50–1[disputed ]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

So how much you read is up to you, but if you ever hear the term the New Left this is what they meant.

Hm. Lazy me. I will never read that for fear that I might actually learn something. You're right. Where's the hole in the sand I've been keeping my head?


Quote:I use the term pejoratively and like to think of them as market evangelicals.  I am not now, nor have I ever been on board with it.  In Europe it saved the left from socialism, however in America it made the left harder to tell apart from the right.

I am a neorealist and don't buy into the assumptions at the core of neoliberalism, but unfortunatlely its the dominat theme in IR and forms the framework behind most policy, both domestic and international.

Good for you. Bonus points for "pejoratively".


Can you provide the evidence of Barry's "try" or have you taken to believing politicians at face value the same way you do the corporate news outlets? The same guy who put in place a rather intense vetting process for refugees?  The guy who has been escalating the drone war?  You actually believe he tried to close GitMo?  Really?  Fascinating.

Once again reading your post you continue to insinuate what I believe, might believe, possibly believe, from objective statements regarding what others (in this case redneck hillbilly and Trumpions) seem to believe.  You do this consistently and them pretend I am so contrarians when, in fact, I am scholarly and remove my opinion from discussions of things whenever possible.

Do you even remember the required course on critical thinking you took in college?

Let me see if I can explain discussion to you.  It involves objective statements about thing that appear to be true.  If I was talking about my beliefs I would use catchy phrasing like "I think" or other forms of the personal pronoun "I".  Is it possible for you to distinguish statements from personal opinions?  It doesn't seem you know how to.

Stormfront is the online forum of young internet white supremacists.  What does me stating that mean about me?
02-27-2017, 01:57 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-27-2017, 01:59 AM by more or less.)
Post: #65
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-26-2017, 04:37 PM)Gippy Wrote: He's a con-man. He told you everything you needed to know about him during the election.


Repeating something doesn't make it anymore true. Though you probably watch enough corporate news to have that tattoo'd on your ass somewhere.

Let's do a quick review, shall we?

No new taxes!

I did not have relations with that woman!

NAFTA is good for America.

WMDs!

Close GitMo!

Salute
02-27-2017, 07:24 AM,
Post: #66
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Quote:Trump's speech loudly reiterated campaign pledges to ditch multilateral trade agreements (he even praised Sen. Bernie Sanders' stance) and to spend big on infrastructure, crack down on illegal immigration, and reduce America's military commitments abroad — all of which remain highly controversial on the right.

Salute
02-27-2017, 09:37 AM,
Post: #67
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-27-2017, 01:24 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 03:57 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 12:36 PM)more or less Wrote: See this is EXACTLY what I am getting at:




Quote:"I called the fake news the enemy of the people," Trump said. "They are the enemy of the people, because they have no sources. They just make them up when there are none."

And during a Thursday discussion, White House chief strategist Bannon continued to label the media as "the opposition party."
"If you look at the opposition party, how they portrayed the campaign, how they portrayed the transition, how they portray the administration, it's always wrong," he said. "The corporatist, globalist media is adamantly opposed to economic nationalist agenda like Donald Trump has."

That's from an article about Trump's  CPAC speech that I plucked from my news reader.  Source is The Hill iirc.

I need to know more about this Bannon guy, because he is talking my talk.  Trump may turn out to be something no one really expects.

Mr Bannon once proudly described Breitbart as the “platform for the alt right”. Alt Right essentially refers to the online white supremacist movement.
Mr Bannon is also openly sympathetic to other bigots, including the Le Pen family in France, who head up the Front National.

Are you still confused about where the racist undertones/accusations come from?

It's all the compelling links, sources and references that read like FAKE NEWS.  I do enjoy your Alt-Facts though.

Wouldn't happen to have a link for any of that would you?

Oh, that you think that I'd try to Conway you. Its like we don't even know each other. Here you go. Pick your source.
02-27-2017, 09:41 AM,
Post: #68
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-27-2017, 07:24 AM)more or less Wrote:
Quote:Trump's speech loudly reiterated campaign pledges to ditch multilateral trade agreements (he even praised Sen. Bernie Sanders' stance) and to spend big on infrastructure, crack down on illegal immigration, and reduce America's military commitments abroad — all of which remain highly controversial on the right.

Salute

All this and he also basks in the lie, sorry, alternative fact, that he dropped the debt in his first month in office.  Wtf
02-27-2017, 09:56 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-27-2017, 04:06 PM by Gippy.)
Post: #69
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-27-2017, 01:45 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 04:37 PM)n  g Gippy Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 11:57 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 06:43 AM)Gippy Wrote: Heh. Syrian immigration is a boogey man created to rile up the base. As is the illegal alien problem. Its a distraction and a waste of time. There's already enough protections in place that the travel ban was purely a smoke screen. A diversion. ICE has been on deportation spree's all throughout the Obama admin. You see enhanced security and I see an already flailing president trying to look effective by putting a band aid on a non-existent cut.

What is the Syrian refugee problem? What is the illegal alien problem? I've already said that Mexican illegal immigration is at a 20 year low. We're deporting people like crazy for the last 6+ years. Refugees go through a 1-2 year immigration process with 14+ agencies. So I'm curious to why these issues are top of the ticket when the economy is so important. All Cheeto Mussolini has done is waste time, money and mobilize a huge base against him.

I spend more time shitting than he does in security briefings. Could I become an expert in the Syrian and Immigration problems in that amount of time?

The reality we both live in is heavily influenced by the media we consume, there's no disputing that. I get this every time I call my parents. They're stuck in the Fox bubble (my dad claims to watch other channels but all I ever hear from them all the same old bullshit talking points that show up on Faux News, and now in our President's Twitter rants, LOL). I can tell what you've been listening too. But we're also seeing a president trying to restrain the media, create distractions, and modify the story from behind his bully pulpit. And people, dare I say like you, are lapping it up. He's hiding. I just hope that when it does come to light you're not still spewing the FAKE NEWS diatribe.

You can point to a ton of scholarly articles, there's a lot of good shit out there, but this administration has given us no indication that it knows what its doing or even why its doing it. All we've seen is smoke, mirrors, corporatism, cronyism and lies. I don't care about Hillary any more. That ship has sailed. Put conservative on the ticket who actually makes sense and I'll listen. I owe no allegiance to any party. I just have what my pea brain tells me is right and wrong. Do you have any evidence that this administration is following Nye's writings?

The Syrian issue is ISIS.  Virtually every terror incident in Europe from the past two years have been recent Syrian refugees either not on watch lists, or with fake passports (not to mention thwarted attacks).  That said we only allowed about 4000 refugees in because even Obama wasn't that stupid.  He just lied to your face about GitMo and started escalating drone warfare while letting ISIS run amok and then allowing Russia to step in.  Oh and there chaos all over North Africa now but no one gives a shit really.

So you're afraid of the small group that sneaks in as refugees? Or are you afraid of all of 'em? Also, link 'cause I don't want to rehash what's already been written: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017...ocess.html





Quote:According to the State Department, "the total processing time varies depending on an applicant's location and other circumstances, but the average time from the initial [U.N. Refugee Agency] referral to arrival as a refugee in the United States is about 18-24 months."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/u.s.-a...le/2594009

Also: Nice Gitmo mention. Barry tried to close down Gitmo. He failed. But he tried... Trump already has plans to put in gold plated faucets, raise the rent, and pack it to the gills. Which plan was better? Wait, you don't need to answer that.





Quote:Again if you don't undstand the ILLEGAL part of illegal aliens I'm not wasting any more time on it.

'kay.  In my defense: Illegal is a hard word.





Quote:You spend more time shitting than you do reading scholarly articles, and I don't giv a rat's ass what you think of Trump as I still don't really know what he's about yet.

You're right. Care to talk about cryptographically secure data transmission, you uneducated luddite? See, I can sound smart too. (I probably shouldn't have included this taunt. I don't think my brain could handle this technical an argument right now).

He's a con-man. He told you everything you needed to know about him during the election. So if you don't know what he's about yet that you probably can't tell me how Trump's golf game is coming along. And you probably haven't gotten to take a photo with his nuclear football carrier yet. So sad. Maybe there's still time for him to invite you to his dinner table to review secure memos. Oh, wait, that's a backhanded attempt to get you to care... damn.





Quote:As for neoliberalism, you really do need t get it as ts at the core of political economic theory.






Quote:During the 1990s, the Clinton Administration also embraced neoliberalism[70] by supporting the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement, continuing the deregulation of the financial sector through passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, and implementing cuts to the welfare state through passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.[78][80][81] The neoliberalism of the Clinton Administration differs from that of Reagan, as the Clinton Administration purged neoliberalism of neoconservative positions on militarism, family values, opposition to multiculturalism and neglect of ecological issues.[69]:50–1[disputed ]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

So how much you read is up to you, but if you ever hear the term the New Left this is what they meant.

Hm. Lazy me. I will never read that for fear that I might actually learn something. You're right. Where's the hole in the sand I've been keeping my head?





Quote:I use the term pejoratively and like to think of them as market evangelicals.  I am not now, nor have I ever been on board with it.  In Europe it saved the left from socialism, however in America it made the left harder to tell apart from the right.

I am a neorealist and don't buy into the assumptions at the core of neoliberalism, but unfortunatlely its the dominat theme in IR and forms the framework behind most policy, both domestic and international.

Good for you. Bonus points for "pejoratively".


Can you provide the evidence of Barry's "try" or have you taken to believing politicians at face value the same way you do the corporate news outlets? The same guy who put in place a rather intense vetting process for refugees?  The guy who has been escalating the drone war?  You actually believe he tried to close GitMo?  Really?  Fascinating.

There's a great article in the New Yorker. I'd assume a well read intellectual such as yourself has maybe run across it. Or is that too biased a news source? Or possibly below your already elitist standards? It was a hotly contested subject. I'm sure you can find a source that up to your intellectual standards.

Quote:Once again reading your post you continue to insinuate what I believe, might believe, possibly believe, from objective statements regarding what others (in this case redneck hillbilly and Trumpions) seem to believe.  You do this consistently and them pretend I am so contrarians when, in fact, I am scholarly and remove my opinion from discussions of things whenever possible.

Do you even remember the required course on critical thinking you took in college?

<AttenboroughVoice>
The subject has noticed the strategy, but is it self aware enough to know where it came from?
</AttenboroughVoice>


Quote:Let me see if I can explain discussion to you.  It involves objective statements about thing that appear to be true.  If I was talking about my beliefs I would use catchy phrasing like "I think" or other forms of the personal pronoun "I".  Is it possible for you to distinguish statements from personal opinions?  It doesn't seem you know how to.

Stormfront is the online forum of young internet white supremacists.  What does me stating that mean about me?

I'm guessing this is where you tell me?

(02-27-2017, 01:57 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 04:37 PM)Gippy Wrote: He's a con-man. He told you everything you needed to know about him during the election.


Repeating something doesn't make it anymore true. Though you probably watch enough corporate news to have that tattoo'd on your ass somewhere.

Let's do a quick review, shall we?

No new taxes!

I did not have relations with that woman!

NAFTA is good for America.

WMDs!

Close GitMo!

Salute

So, you're saying Presidents lie or don't accomplish goals? Get out of town!
Here are some more fun quotes: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...ons-213869

There's more great stuff too. Look up John Miller and John Barron.  Oaf
02-28-2017, 09:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 09:45 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #70
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Since trade agreements are on the docket here: TYT (OMG LIBERAL FAKE NEWS) does a pretty good job summing up why I dislike the TPP.

https://youtu.be/vY5FHxEcSTM

OMG, the libtard dislikes the TPP? :swoon:
To be honest, though, the TPP wasn't something that I was hanging on in this election. I figured it wouldn't survive no matter who made it in. Barry lost his grip on it and that signaled its death.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-28-2017, 11:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 11:40 AM by more or less.)
Post: #71
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-27-2017, 09:37 AM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-27-2017, 01:24 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 03:57 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 12:36 PM)more or less Wrote: See this is EXACTLY what I am getting at:





Quote:"I called the fake news the enemy of the people," Trump said. "They are the enemy of the people, because they have no sources. They just make them up when there are none."

And during a Thursday discussion, White House chief strategist Bannon continued to label the media as "the opposition party."
"If you look at the opposition party, how they portrayed the campaign, how they portrayed the transition, how they portray the administration, it's always wrong," he said. "The corporatist, globalist media is adamantly opposed to economic nationalist agenda like Donald Trump has."

That's from an article about Trump's  CPAC speech that I plucked from my news reader.  Source is The Hill iirc.

I need to know more about this Bannon guy, because he is talking my talk.  Trump may turn out to be something no one really expects.

Mr Bannon once proudly described Breitbart as the “platform for the alt right”. Alt Right essentially refers to the online white supremacist movement.
Mr Bannon is also openly sympathetic to other bigots, including the Le Pen family in France, who head up the Front National.

Are you still confused about where the racist undertones/accusations come from?

It's all the compelling links, sources and references that read like FAKE NEWS.  I do enjoy your Alt-Facts though.

Wouldn't happen to have a link for any of that would you?

Oh, that you think that I'd try to Conway you. Its like we don't even know each other. Here you go. Pick your source.

Great, now show me, in the OTHER thread, how alt-right essentially means white supremacist.
02-28-2017, 11:42 AM,
Post: #72
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-28-2017, 09:43 AM)Gippy Wrote: Since trade agreements are on the docket here: TYT (OMG LIBERAL FAKE NEWS) does a pretty good job summing up why I dislike the TPP.

https://youtu.be/vY5FHxEcSTM

OMG, the libtard dislikes the TPP? :swoon:
To be honest, though, the TPP wasn't something that I was hanging on in this election. I figured it wouldn't survive no matter who made it in. Barry lost his grip on it and that signaled its death.

Did Hillary support this?  Does Trump?
02-28-2017, 11:44 AM,
Post: #73
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-27-2017, 09:56 AM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-27-2017, 01:45 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 04:37 PM)n  g Gippy Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 11:57 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 06:43 AM)Gippy Wrote: Heh. Syrian immigration is a boogey man created to rile up the base. As is the illegal alien problem. Its a distraction and a waste of time. There's already enough protections in place that the travel ban was purely a smoke screen. A diversion. ICE has been on deportation spree's all throughout the Obama admin. You see enhanced security and I see an already flailing president trying to look effective by putting a band aid on a non-existent cut.

What is the Syrian refugee problem? What is the illegal alien problem? I've already said that Mexican illegal immigration is at a 20 year low. We're deporting people like crazy for the last 6+ years. Refugees go through a 1-2 year immigration process with 14+ agencies. So I'm curious to why these issues are top of the ticket when the economy is so important. All Cheeto Mussolini has done is waste time, money and mobilize a huge base against him.

I spend more time shitting than he does in security briefings. Could I become an expert in the Syrian and Immigration problems in that amount of time?

The reality we both live in is heavily influenced by the media we consume, there's no disputing that. I get this every time I call my parents. They're stuck in the Fox bubble (my dad claims to watch other channels but all I ever hear from them all the same old bullshit talking points that show up on Faux News, and now in our President's Twitter rants, LOL). I can tell what you've been listening too. But we're also seeing a president trying to restrain the media, create distractions, and modify the story from behind his bully pulpit. And people, dare I say like you, are lapping it up. He's hiding. I just hope that when it does come to light you're not still spewing the FAKE NEWS diatribe.

You can point to a ton of scholarly articles, there's a lot of good shit out there, but this administration has given us no indication that it knows what its doing or even why its doing it. All we've seen is smoke, mirrors, corporatism, cronyism and lies. I don't care about Hillary any more. That ship has sailed. Put conservative on the ticket who actually makes sense and I'll listen. I owe no allegiance to any party. I just have what my pea brain tells me is right and wrong. Do you have any evidence that this administration is following Nye's writings?

The Syrian issue is ISIS.  Virtually every terror incident in Europe from the past two years have been recent Syrian refugees either not on watch lists, or with fake passports (not to mention thwarted attacks).  That said we only allowed about 4000 refugees in because even Obama wasn't that stupid.  He just lied to your face about GitMo and started escalating drone warfare while letting ISIS run amok and then allowing Russia to step in.  Oh and there chaos all over North Africa now but no one gives a shit really.

So you're afraid of the small group that sneaks in as refugees? Or are you afraid of all of 'em? Also, link 'cause I don't want to rehash what's already been written: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017...ocess.html






Quote:According to the State Department, "the total processing time varies depending on an applicant's location and other circumstances, but the average time from the initial [U.N. Refugee Agency] referral to arrival as a refugee in the United States is about 18-24 months."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/u.s.-a...le/2594009

Also: Nice Gitmo mention. Barry tried to close down Gitmo. He failed. But he tried... Trump already has plans to put in gold plated faucets, raise the rent, and pack it to the gills. Which plan was better? Wait, you don't need to answer that.






Quote:Again if you don't undstand the ILLEGAL part of illegal aliens I'm not wasting any more time on it.

'kay.  In my defense: Illegal is a hard word.






Quote:You spend more time shitting than you do reading scholarly articles, and I don't giv a rat's ass what you think of Trump as I still don't really know what he's about yet.

You're right. Care to talk about cryptographically secure data transmission, you uneducated luddite? See, I can sound smart too. (I probably shouldn't have included this taunt. I don't think my brain could handle this technical an argument right now).

He's a con-man. He told you everything you needed to know about him during the election. So if you don't know what he's about yet that you probably can't tell me how Trump's golf game is coming along. And you probably haven't gotten to take a photo with his nuclear football carrier yet. So sad. Maybe there's still time for him to invite you to his dinner table to review secure memos. Oh, wait, that's a backhanded attempt to get you to care... damn.






Quote:As for neoliberalism, you really do need t get it as ts at the core of political economic theory.







Quote:During the 1990s, the Clinton Administration also embraced neoliberalism[70] by supporting the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement, continuing the deregulation of the financial sector through passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, and implementing cuts to the welfare state through passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.[78][80][81] The neoliberalism of the Clinton Administration differs from that of Reagan, as the Clinton Administration purged neoliberalism of neoconservative positions on militarism, family values, opposition to multiculturalism and neglect of ecological issues.[69]:50–1[disputed ]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

So how much you read is up to you, but if you ever hear the term the New Left this is what they meant.

Hm. Lazy me. I will never read that for fear that I might actually learn something. You're right. Where's the hole in the sand I've been keeping my head?






Quote:I use the term pejoratively and like to think of them as market evangelicals.  I am not now, nor have I ever been on board with it.  In Europe it saved the left from socialism, however in America it made the left harder to tell apart from the right.

I am a neorealist and don't buy into the assumptions at the core of neoliberalism, but unfortunatlely its the dominat theme in IR and forms the framework behind most policy, both domestic and international.

Good for you. Bonus points for "pejoratively".


Can you provide the evidence of Barry's "try" or have you taken to believing politicians at face value the same way you do the corporate news outlets? The same guy who put in place a rather intense vetting process for refugees?  The guy who has been escalating the drone war?  You actually believe he tried to close GitMo?  Really?  Fascinating.

There's a great article in the New Yorker. I'd assume a well read intellectual such as yourself has maybe run across it. Or is that too biased a news source? Or possibly below your already elitist standards? It was a hotly contested subject. I'm sure you can find a source that up to your intellectual standards.


Quote:Once again reading your post you continue to insinuate what I believe, might believe, possibly believe, from objective statements regarding what others (in this case redneck hillbilly and Trumpions) seem to believe.  You do this consistently and them pretend I am so contrarians when, in fact, I am scholarly and remove my opinion from discussions of things whenever possible.

Do you even remember the required course on critical thinking you took in college?

<AttenboroughVoice>
The subject has noticed the strategy, but is it self aware enough to know where it came from?
</AttenboroughVoice>



Quote:Let me see if I can explain discussion to you.  It involves objective statements about thing that appear to be true.  If I was talking about my beliefs I would use catchy phrasing like "I think" or other forms of the personal pronoun "I".  Is it possible for you to distinguish statements from personal opinions?  It doesn't seem you know how to.

Stormfront is the online forum of young internet white supremacists.  What does me stating that mean about me?

I'm guessing this is where you tell me?


(02-27-2017, 01:57 AM)more or less Wrote:
(02-26-2017, 04:37 PM)Gippy Wrote: He's a con-man. He told you everything you needed to know about him during the election.


Repeating something doesn't make it anymore true. Though you probably watch enough corporate news to have that tattoo'd on your ass somewhere.

Let's do a quick review, shall we?

No new taxes!

I did not have relations with that woman!

NAFTA is good for America.

WMDs!

Close GitMo!

Salute

So, you're saying Presidents lie or don't accomplish goals? Get out of town!
Here are some more fun quotes: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...ons-213869

There's more great stuff too. Look up John Miller and John Barron.  Oaf

It was basically a con job.
02-28-2017, 12:16 PM,
Post: #74
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
you fuckers quote too much
bedstuy Wrote:mocking a pair of $500 jeans is a form of class warfare... why do you hate my social status?
02-28-2017, 01:09 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 01:45 PM by FuturDreamz.)
Post: #75
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-28-2017, 12:16 PM)roo Wrote: you fuckers quote too much

++


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