I'm warming up to this Trump guy
02-24-2017, 04:20 PM,
Post: #26
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 02:30 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 05:03 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 02:10 PM)more or less Wrote: It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

I just had to call this one out as especially entertaining. There's a con-man in the White House. I think its safe to assume that they have no idea when they're being bullshitted.

That's an odd thing to say.  I suppose you must have a clear example of said bullshit.  I look forward to your intellectual elucidation on said con.

Even the left wing nutjub media was caught off-guard when he "didn't pivot" after taking office.

But yeah, keep telling yourself they were duped if that makes you feel better.

They were duped. They overlooked obvious flaws so that they could MAGA back to the days when whites sat on top of the heap and everyone else knew their place. Back to when simple folk could be simple and still be effective in the workforce. When women didn't complain about being harassed. I feel that's pretty obvious, which is why I have this stance. If you don't at least see hints of it then I doubt that any list of links, tax bills for a wall, or internet diatribes will change your point of view.

It doesn't make me feel better that they were duped. But I'm  Wuv that you're back. The only contrarian for contrarian sake voice around here was the Tater and he doesn't have your subtleties. 
02-24-2017, 10:38 PM,
Post: #27
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 03:09 PM)Alien Wrote:
(02-24-2017, 12:31 PM)agedgruel Wrote: Even if they are stupid hillbilly rednecks?
All of them?

No, not all of them. There are two types of Republicans.

1. Wealthy people
2. Idiots
02-25-2017, 01:14 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 01:15 AM by agedgruel.)
Post: #28
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 02:30 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 05:03 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 02:10 PM)more or less Wrote: It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

I just had to call this one out as especially entertaining. There's a con-man in the White House. I think its safe to assume that they have no idea when they're being bullshitted.

That's an odd thing to say.  I suppose you must have a clear example of said bullshit.  I look forward to your intellectual elucidation on said con.

Even the left wing nutjub media was caught off-guard when he "didn't pivot" after taking office.

But yeah, keep telling yourself they were duped if that makes you feel better.

I too am glad you're back, but I wish it had been during the two consecutive Royals playoff runs. However, if you think a self-described billionaire and obvious narcissist (setting aside his numerous other character flaws) who has surrounded himself with Goldman cronies and other billionaires will have the working man's interests in mind for even a nanosecond, you're even dumber than potard.

It was a con from the very beginning. He is and always has been in it to enrich himself and those that can stand him enough to be numbered among his friends while building his brand as much as he possibly can.
02-25-2017, 05:05 AM,
Post: #29
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
So basically "they" is a mask that allows you to insult the intelligence of the majority of voters without recognizing that the majority of voters are just normal people trying to make an informed decision.
My logic is infallible. Resistance is futile.
02-25-2017, 05:16 AM,
Post: #30
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 05:05 AM)FuturDreamz Wrote: So basically "they" is a mask that allows you to insult the intelligence of the majority of voters without recognizing that the majority of voters are just normal people trying to make an informed decision.

The majority of voters did not vote for this shit sandwich.

Also:

Shut up, dickface.
02-25-2017, 08:55 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 08:58 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #31
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
So, the coal country voters that pulled for Trump when they know deep down that coal is dead made an informed decision?
The voters who are on the ACA that voted to repeal and replace Obamacare made an informed decision?
The voters who agreed to a wall between the US and Mexico that they're gonna now be on the hook to fund made an informed decision?
The voters who voted on the basis of defunding Planned Parenthood made an informed decision?
The voters who voted to drain the swamp made an informed decision?

Republicans have a great schtick about the downtrodden conservative in modern America. About the liberal bubble. They really do. But they're not the party of the common man. Neither are. But time after time the conservatives are fully against causes that benefit their voter base. Democrats at least push for socio-economic equality/benefit of some sort. Middle America is the bubble, not the coasts.

The Republicans are promising to prop back up the same industries that failed these workers in the first place. Democrats pushed re-training to bring these people in to the modern age. To give them modern skills that would make their areas attractive for more developing industries. The Republicans are fighting this change. It is inevitable but is also bad for the bottom line when companies have to reinvest in workers. They don't like that. Republicans play to that. Don't retrain, don't move forward, stay where you are, learn nothing, and keep doing the same old thing so that your life stays flush with manual labor. The bottom line looks better that way. Also, don't even think about taking a rich person's taxes to better the life of the common man. That's now how this is supposed to work!

The push back against the Obamacare repeal now that people realize what it means to them. Its quite sad to see. These people literally voted to increase their own hardship.

And now I hear that we hurt their feelings by calling them racist for responding to the racist/xenophobic dog whistle. I have nothing to give there. Nothing. Especially when we heard nothing from the Republicans when attacks on minorities and other religious groups started to rise during the election. Only was there outrage on the right when Christianity or Real America was attacked. Sounds to me like Real America needs a safe place so that they don't need to listen to what the world around them really thinks.

[Image: f83374ca4f770f6e80496cf65c44f9a6.jpg]
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-25-2017, 11:31 AM,
Post: #32
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 05:16 AM)agedgruel Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 05:05 AM)FuturDreamz Wrote: So basically "they" is a mask that allows you to insult the intelligence of the majority of voters without recognizing that the majority of voters are just normal people trying to make an informed decision.

The majority of voters did not vote for this shit sandwich.

Also:

Shut up, dickface.

Correction: the majority of VALID voters. Excluding the deceased and double dippers.
02-25-2017, 11:39 AM,
Post: #33
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
So far those have all turned up Republican, BTW.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-25-2017, 11:48 AM,
Post: #34
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 11:31 AM)FuturDreamz Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 05:16 AM)agedgruel Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 05:05 AM)FuturDreamz Wrote: So basically "they" is a mask that allows you to insult the intelligence of the majority of voters without recognizing that the majority of voters are just normal people trying to make an informed decision.

The majority of voters did not vote for this shit sandwich.

Also:

Shut up, dickface.

Correction: the majority of VALID voters. Excluding the deceased and double dippers.

If you have evidence of actual, documented voter fraud, let's see it. Otherwise, shut the fuck up with that bullshit.

You can't, because there isn't more than a handful. In other words, not statistically significant.

In other words,

Shut up, dickface.
02-25-2017, 12:18 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 12:20 PM by more or less.)
Post: #35
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 04:12 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-24-2017, 02:35 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-24-2017, 12:45 PM)Gippy Wrote: It is weird, though, that they're starting to come around, right? I mean, seriously, Liberals give them things and they get pissed when conservatives try to take it away. But they yelled and screamed when it was being given to them.

They're more than willing to be lied to and coerced. Maybe they need to be dragged kicking and screaming in to the modern age.

Defining the "they" and the lies would be the key here.  And you telling me how Hillary represents the modern age would be a hoot!

She represents neoliberal globalist corporatism.  I suppose that's modern, but you'd be hard pressed to decribe to me what's so good about it.

Or maybe not.  Tell me, Gippy, what is best about corporatism?

You should be able to determine the "they" here.
You're smart.
That you think corporatism died with Hillary's run is cute.

I am damn sure they aren't stupid redneck hillbillys.

That you'd be insipid enough to imply I think corporatism is dead is awfully cheap of you. That you can't tell me what's so good about is at the heart of why you have no fucking clue why the pendulum swung the way it did.

So, for you and the rest of those slack jawed morons wannabe elitists that were caught offguard, "not my President
" is about as intelligent as saying "not my country."

This is known as a "disconnect with reality" in scholarly circles.

But please, go google Joseph Nye and do a little reading. Maybe then we could have something resembling an intelligent discussion for a change.
02-25-2017, 12:23 PM,
Post: #36
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 11:48 AM)agedgruel Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 11:31 AM)FuturDreamz Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 05:16 AM)agedgruel Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 05:05 AM)FuturDreamz Wrote: So basically "they" is a mask that allows you to insult the intelligence of the majority of voters without recognizing that the majority of voters are just normal people trying to make an informed decision.

The majority of voters did not vote for this shit sandwich.

Also:

Shut up, dickface.

Correction: the majority of VALID voters. Excluding the deceased and double dippers.

If you have evidence of actual, documented voter fraud, let's see it. Otherwise, shut the fuck up with that bullshit.

You can't, because there isn't more than a handful. In other words, not statistically significant.

In other words,

Shut up, dickface.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/po.../95363314/
02-25-2017, 12:24 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 12:30 PM by more or less.)
Post: #37
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-24-2017, 04:20 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-24-2017, 02:30 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 05:03 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 02:10 PM)more or less Wrote: It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

I just had to call this one out as especially entertaining. There's a con-man in the White House. I think its safe to assume that they have no idea when they're being bullshitted.

That's an odd thing to say.  I suppose you must have a clear example of said bullshit.  I look forward to your intellectual elucidation on said con.

Even the left wing nutjub media was caught off-guard when he "didn't pivot" after taking office.

But yeah, keep telling yourself they were duped if that makes you feel better.

They were duped. They overlooked obvious flaws so that they could MAGA back to the days when whites sat on top of the heap and everyone else knew their place. Back to when simple folk could be simple and still be effective in the workforce. When women didn't complain about being harassed. I feel that's pretty obvious, which is why I have this stance. If you don't at least see hints of it then I doubt that any list of links, tax bills for a wall, or internet diatribes will change your point of view.

It doesn't make me feel better that they were duped. But I'm  Wuv that you're back. The only contrarian for contrarian sake voice around here was the Tater and he doesn't have your subtleties. 

I again ask you to describe the "obvious flaw" and provide an example me even just one "dupe."

Sorry, your twtter style claptrap doesn't get past me.

Perhaps you've been watching so much FAKE NEWS its gone and made you dumb. SAD!!!
02-25-2017, 12:29 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 12:29 PM by more or less.)
Post: #38
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 01:14 AM)agedgruel Wrote:
(02-24-2017, 02:30 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 05:03 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-23-2017, 02:10 PM)more or less Wrote: It couldn't possibly be that even simple minded folk have a keen sense of when they are being bullshitted, could it?

I just had to call this one out as especially entertaining. There's a con-man in the White House. I think its safe to assume that they have no idea when they're being bullshitted.

That's an odd thing to say.  I suppose you must have a clear example of said bullshit.  I look forward to your intellectual elucidation on said con.

Even the left wing nutjub media was caught off-guard when he "didn't pivot" after taking office.

But yeah, keep telling yourself they were duped if that makes you feel better.

I too am glad you're back, but I wish it had been during the two consecutive Royals playoff runs. However, if you think a self-described billionaire and obvious narcissist (setting aside his numerous other character flaws) who has surrounded himself with Goldman cronies and other billionaires will have the working man's interests in mind for even a nanosecond, you're even dumber than potard.

It was a con from the very beginning. He is and always has been in it to enrich himself and those that can stand him enough to be numbered among his friends while building his brand as much as he possibly can.

That you'd say that considering the Clintons considerable investment in the Carlysle Group is laughably dismissable.

Again, pleae provide an example of "the con."

The people are angry. They elected Trump because they want the status quo dismantled.

You can say whatever you want about Trump, his character, or his policies.

But he was specifically elected to cause disruption.

If you don't fundamentally understand that, you are dumber than a redneck.
02-25-2017, 12:47 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 12:50 PM by more or less.)
Post: #39
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 08:55 AM)Gippy Wrote: So, the coal country voters that pulled for Trump when they know deep down that coal is dead made an informed decision?
The voters who are on the ACA that voted to repeal and replace Obamacare made an informed decision?
The voters who agreed to a wall between the US and Mexico that they're gonna now be on the hook to fund made an informed decision?
The voters who voted on the basis of defunding Planned Parenthood made an informed decision?
The voters who voted to drain the swamp made an informed decision?

Republicans have a great schtick about the downtrodden conservative in modern America. About the liberal bubble. They really do. But they're not the party of the common man. Neither are. But time after time the conservatives are fully against causes that benefit their voter base. Democrats at least push for socio-economic equality/benefit of some sort. Middle America is the bubble, not the coasts.

The Republicans are promising to prop back up the same industries that failed these workers in the first place. Democrats pushed re-training to bring these people in to the modern age. To give them modern skills that would make their areas attractive for more developing industries. The Republicans are fighting this change. It is inevitable but is also bad for the bottom line when companies have to reinvest in workers. They don't like that. Republicans play to that. Don't retrain, don't move forward, stay where you are, learn nothing, and keep doing the same old thing so that your life stays flush with manual labor. The bottom line looks better that way. Also, don't even think about taking a rich person's taxes to better the life of the common man. That's now how this is supposed to work!

The push back against the Obamacare repeal now that people realize what it means to them. Its quite sad to see. These people literally voted to increase their own hardship.

And now I hear that we hurt their feelings by calling them racist for responding to the racist/xenophobic dog whistle. I have nothing to give there. Nothing. Especially when we heard nothing from the Republicans when attacks on minorities and other religious groups started to rise during the election. Only was there outrage on the right when Christianity or Real America was attacked. Sounds to me like Real America needs a safe place so that they don't need to listen to what the world around them really thinks.

[Image: f83374ca4f770f6e80496cf65c44f9a6.jpg]

Did you just say coal is dead? You might want to do, um, a little digging on what we are importing from China numbnuts.

What is so good about the ACA that a dumb redneck hillbilly would want it? Ask Juice how well its working for Kansas?

The people did not vote for the wall in as much as they voted on someone doing something "concrete" about illegal immigration. Can you tell me why a rednck would be as fond of illegal immigration as you are?

That bullshit you just floated about failed industries was enitrely due to cheap imports, and industries exporting production (jobs) thanks to NAFTA and a large pool of acronymed trade agreements I cant begin to describe.

So tell me, what does a redneck hillbilly like best about his/her manufacturing job going to China?

Why don't you go down to Home Depot and see where that drywall sheetrock came from. Then the tile. Then the high end vinyl flooring. Not sure about the paints, tell me where they came from?

And the blah blah racist twitterspeak is the FAKE NEWS political disotortion machines working on you.

Immigration bans on 7 countries and WAAAAHHHH ANTI IMMIGRANT WAAAH.

You really yave conflated islamic terrorism with racism? I didn't realize just how stupid you got on me because of your twittering.

But bro, you are just straight lost. No wonder you are so confused. You, my friend, have been brainwashed by the debate in the NEWS MEDIA.

Which you seem to think represents intelligent discourse? Are you fucking seriously this brain dead?
02-25-2017, 01:52 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 01:56 PM by Gippy.)
Post: #40
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
That's a whole lotta stupidity. You're gonna have to gimme a bit to write a retort.
Good job on hitting all the cliche retorts, though. Thumbs up!
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-25-2017, 02:40 PM,
Post: #41
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
The devil is in the details.
My logic is infallible. Resistance is futile.
02-25-2017, 03:25 PM,
Post: #42
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 12:29 PM)more or less Wrote: The people are angry.  They elected Trump because they want the status quo dismantled.
All of them?
02-25-2017, 05:06 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-25-2017, 05:18 PM by Gippy.)
Post: #43
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 12:18 PM)more or less Wrote: That you'd be insipid enough to imply I think corporatism is dead is awfully cheap of you.  That you can't tell me what's so good about is at the heart of why you have no fucking clue why the pendulum swung the way it did.

Where did I say that corporatism is good? I don't think that corporatism is good. Do you think that corporatism is good? Its so weird how you thought that I thought that corporatism was such a good thing. Weird.

(02-25-2017, 12:47 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 08:55 AM)Gippy Wrote: So, the coal country voters that pulled for Trump when they know deep down that coal is dead made an informed decision?
The voters who are on the ACA that voted to repeal and replace Obamacare made an informed decision?
The voters who agreed to a wall between the US and Mexico that they're gonna now be on the hook to fund made an informed decision?
The voters who voted on the basis of defunding Planned Parenthood made an informed decision?
The voters who voted to drain the swamp made an informed decision?

Republicans have a great schtick about the downtrodden conservative in modern America. About the liberal bubble. They really do. But they're not the party of the common man. Neither are. But time after time the conservatives are fully against causes that benefit their voter base. Democrats at least push for socio-economic equality/benefit of some sort. Middle America is the bubble, not the coasts.

The Republicans are promising to prop back up the same industries that failed these workers in the first place. Democrats pushed re-training to bring these people in to the modern age. To give them modern skills that would make their areas attractive for more developing industries. The Republicans are fighting this change. It is inevitable but is also bad for the bottom line when companies have to reinvest in workers. They don't like that. Republicans play to that. Don't retrain, don't move forward, stay where you are, learn nothing, and keep doing the same old thing so that your life stays flush with manual labor. The bottom line looks better that way. Also, don't even think about taking a rich person's taxes to better the life of the common man. That's now how this is supposed to work!

The push back against the Obamacare repeal now that people realize what it means to them. Its quite sad to see. These people literally voted to increase their own hardship.

And now I hear that we hurt their feelings by calling them racist for responding to the racist/xenophobic dog whistle. I have nothing to give there. Nothing. Especially when we heard nothing from the Republicans when attacks on minorities and other religious groups started to rise during the election. Only was there outrage on the right when Christianity or Real America was attacked. Sounds to me like Real America needs a safe place so that they don't need to listen to what the world around them really thinks.

[Image: f83374ca4f770f6e80496cf65c44f9a6.jpg]

Did you just say coal is dead?  You might want to do, um, a little digging on what we are importing from China numbnuts.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more explicit for you: coal in the US is dying, if not dead. Automation and that we've gotten at all the cheaply gotten coal means that, yes, jobs are losing out to cheaper imports. Renewable energy already employs more pipples than the coal industry does. How numb are your nuts?

Quote:What is so good about the ACA that a dumb redneck hillbilly would want it?  Ask Juice how well its working for Kansas?

I dunno. You'll have to ask the dumb redneck hillbillies that are sad now that they'll lose their ACA. Maybe ask the Repubicans who claim that the angry constituents weren't real. Maybe ask the ones that pretend to be in Europe so that they don't have to talk to their constituents. I'm sure they have a totally trustworthy explanation for why it is teh sux.

Quote:The people did not vote for the wall in as much as they voted on someone doing something "concrete" about illegal immigration.  Can you tell me why a rednck would be as fond of illegal immigration as you are?

Illegal immigration flows are at a 20 year low. Again, you're projecting, I never said I was fond of 'em. I'm just not afraid of 'em like you are. Can you tell me why its such an urgent issue to you and said redneck? You're awful worked up about it but it seems we're doing pretty good on managing that border without extra "concrete" being applied. The immigration ploy is only serving to rile up the rednecks and get them to shoot a) people they think are immigrants and b) shoot each other and claim it was immigrants.

But before you have the chance, YES THERE ARE VIOLENT IMMIGRANTS. There are violent Americans, too, and they're inflicting MORE damage than the immigrants are. So maybe, just maybe, there's a different issue to be thinking of there. I dunno, what could it be...

Quote:That bullshit you just floated about failed industries was enitrely due to cheap imports, and industries exporting production (jobs) thanks to NAFTA and a large pool of acronymed trade agreements I cant begin to describe.

I was still talking about coal/energy. Those industries should be allowed to slowly die while we focus on training and education that reflect more realistic modern economies. I admit to not being a scholar on free trade, but cursory reading on the economic effects of our free trade agreements are that they're pretty much net neutral on jobs. Manufacturing will always favor developing countries with lax rules. But we're even seeing that China now coming around. They're fighting to maintain their advantage. It'll shift to some other developing nation and they'll suffer the same fate as we are. But we've already seen some industries, like the cattle industry, become dependent on free trade. And who do you think cattle ranchers like to vote for. Yep... the same people who are gonna revoke the free trade agreements and kill their exports. Since I know you're wondering, this is the only industry I have an example of. 

Quote:So tell me, what does a redneck hillbilly like best about his/her manufacturing job going to China?

Again, projection. Seems like you should be answering that.

Quote:Why don't you go down to Home Depot and see where that drywall sheetrock came from.  Then the tile.  Then the high end vinyl flooring.  Not sure about the paints, tell me where they came from?

They come from somewhere with more lax regulations and worker safety. I never disputed that. My fault for not being 100% explicit there and leaving room for your imagination to run wild.

Quote:And the blah blah racist twitterspeak is the FAKE NEWS political disotortion machines working on you.

Uh-huh. Don't tell you buy in to the fake news bullshit. You're smarter than that. It'd be a real let down if you're on board with #45's dilusions of persecution. And tell me how the hell Brietbart and InfoWars even deserves a seat at the big boy news table. Please please please tell me how legit they are.

Quote:Immigration bans on 7 countries and WAAAAHHHH ANTI IMMIGRANT WAAAH.

And here we go off the rails. Adding more shit to the pile so that you can dilute the argument. But I'll play.
The blanket ban was unconstitutional. Letting a paranoid delusional orange trample our constitution is not the way to solve problems. That is to say that there is a problem. It is hard to immigrate to this country any more. And we've had more people killed by WHITE EXTREMISM in this country than we have by any other type, but it sure makes for good news, don't it? The ban was stupid. The ban was wasteful. The ban was a distraction. But I suppose you'll blame that on fake news too, if only to just keep calling me a bedwetting liberal. So sad. Does the world look horrible through orange colored glasses?

Quote:You really yave conflated islamic terrorism with racism?  I didn't realize just how stupid you got on me because of your twittering.

Please, show me how I've conflated that. I'm all ears... and really curious too. I had no idea I could conflate those. This should be quite the educational event. School me, bro.

Quote:But bro, you are just straight lost.  No wonder you are so confused.  You, my friend, have been brainwashed by the debate in the NEWS MEDIA.

Which you seem to think represents intelligent discourse?  Are you fucking seriously this brain dead?

You have... you have bought in to the fake news argument. I'm dumbfounded that you're so teh dum, or are these just alternative viewpoints? I look forward to your enlightening words, though. I await your wisdom of how Trump, Bowling Green and the Republicans are the victims here. How you think that his corporatism is different and better than other corporatism. How his cries of "We've done nothing wrong, but that guy is fired. And so is that guy. Hey look a moose lamb ban" is good for the country and worth of American politics. We already had a credibility problem in our politics, but this sinks us to a new low. But apparently you're not seeing anything wrong here. That's quite interesting. How much are you willing to denigrate yourself here to play along? I'm so curious...
02-25-2017, 09:52 PM,
Post: #44
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
You took far more time to argue on the internet with a guy who agrees with potardo than I'm willing to spend, Gippy.
Clubbie Clubbie Clubbie Clubbie Clubbie Clubbie Clubbie Clubbie Clubbie


02-25-2017, 10:21 PM,
Post: #45
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
I just did a wee bit of research on coal, because I was curious.

The US isn't producing coal because the import price is too low to sustain the industry here. Coal demand is no longer out-pacing supply, so given sufficient product to meet demand, there is no longer room for higher-priced material.

It's specious to suggest that coal is more difficult to mine in the US than it is in China. It's simply more expensive to mine it domestically. It's not only the coal industry, the US can't compete with China on price on just about any item: clothing, toys, electronics, even pet food. (That is, unless someone has data to show that cheap labor is only a factor in Chinese manufacturing except for coal.)

A relevant aside: I have a friend who works at a large (and expensive) supplier of outdoor clothing. I asked him why his jackets are all imported and so expensive. He told me that it's because Americans have lost the knowledge to sew, and so clothing must be manufactured in Asia. I didn't research it, but I'm pretty sure it's bullshit.
bedstuy Wrote:mocking a pair of $500 jeans is a form of class warfare... why do you hate my social status?
02-26-2017, 12:46 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-26-2017, 12:52 AM by Gippy.)
Post: #46
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
This more fully describes my point about hard to get at coal:

Quote:Coal is getting more expensive to produce.

Why? First, the easiest-to-reach coal has been mined, which means coal companies have to dig deeper and go after thinner seams and smaller deposits. That costs more, in both energy and money. And second, transportation costs, mainly the cost of the diesel fuel that runs the trains that carry the coal, are rising.

https://www.google.com/amp/grist.org/cli...-rise/amp/

That point could arguably be wrapped up all nice in the "it's cheaper from the east where they abuse workers", but I wanted to be clear.

I'll also admit that I have a hard on for renewables and look forward to the day when we don't kill migrant bats with wind farms and don't ravage the earth for battery fixins.
The chaos army seems suspiciously well organized.
flickr | Stupid Blog | Twitter
02-26-2017, 12:47 AM,
Post: #47
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 09:52 PM)agedgruel Wrote: You took far more time to argue on the internet with a guy who agrees with potardo than I'm willing to spend, Gippy.

I like arguing with the munchkin. Cry2
02-26-2017, 04:49 AM,
Post: #48
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 09:52 PM)agedgruel Wrote: You took far more time to argue on the internet with a guy who agrees with potardo than I'm willing to spend, Gippy.

Ur not capable
02-26-2017, 05:04 AM,
Post: #49
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
(02-25-2017, 05:06 PM)Gippy Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 12:18 PM)more or less Wrote: That you'd be insipid enough to imply I think corporatism is dead is awfully cheap of you.  That you can't tell me what's so good about is at the heart of why you have no fucking clue why the pendulum swung the way it did.

Where did I say that corporatism is good? I don't think that corporatism is good. Do you think that corporatism is good? Its so weird how you thought that I thought that corporatism was such a good thing. Weird.


(02-25-2017, 12:47 PM)more or less Wrote:
(02-25-2017, 08:55 AM)Gippy Wrote: So, the coal country voters that pulled for Trump when they know deep down that coal is dead made an informed decision?
The voters who are on the ACA that voted to repeal and replace Obamacare made an informed decision?
The voters who agreed to a wall between the US and Mexico that they're gonna now be on the hook to fund made an informed decision?
The voters who voted on the basis of defunding Planned Parenthood made an informed decision?
The voters who voted to drain the swamp made an informed decision?

Republicans have a great schtick about the downtrodden conservative in modern America. About the liberal bubble. They really do. But they're not the party of the common man. Neither are. But time after time the conservatives are fully against causes that benefit their voter base. Democrats at least push for socio-economic equality/benefit of some sort. Middle America is the bubble, not the coasts.

The Republicans are promising to prop back up the same industries that failed these workers in the first place. Democrats pushed re-training to bring these people in to the modern age. To give them modern skills that would make their areas attractive for more developing industries. The Republicans are fighting this change. It is inevitable but is also bad for the bottom line when companies have to reinvest in workers. They don't like that. Republicans play to that. Don't retrain, don't move forward, stay where you are, learn nothing, and keep doing the same old thing so that your life stays flush with manual labor. The bottom line looks better that way. Also, don't even think about taking a rich person's taxes to better the life of the common man. That's now how this is supposed to work!

The push back against the Obamacare repeal now that people realize what it means to them. Its quite sad to see. These people literally voted to increase their own hardship.

And now I hear that we hurt their feelings by calling them racist for responding to the racist/xenophobic dog whistle. I have nothing to give there. Nothing. Especially when we heard nothing from the Republicans when attacks on minorities and other religious groups started to rise during the election. Only was there outrage on the right when Christianity or Real America was attacked. Sounds to me like Real America needs a safe place so that they don't need to listen to what the world around them really thinks.

[Image: f83374ca4f770f6e80496cf65c44f9a6.jpg]

Did you just say coal is dead?  You might want to do, um, a little digging on what we are importing from China numbnuts.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more explicit for you: coal in the US is dying, if not dead. Automation and that we've gotten at all the cheaply gotten coal means that, yes, jobs are losing out to cheaper imports. Renewable energy already employs more pipples than the coal industry does. How numb are your nuts?


Quote:What is so good about the ACA that a dumb redneck hillbilly would want it?  Ask Juice how well its working for Kansas?

I dunno. You'll have to ask the dumb redneck hillbillies that are sad now that they'll lose their ACA. Maybe ask the Repubicans who claim that the angry constituents weren't real. Maybe ask the ones that pretend to be in Europe so that they don't have to talk to their constituents. I'm sure they have a totally trustworthy explanation for why it is teh sux.


Quote:The people did not vote for the wall in as much as they voted on someone doing something "concrete" about illegal immigration.  Can you tell me why a rednck would be as fond of illegal immigration as you are?

Illegal immigration flows are at a 20 year low. Again, you're projecting, I never said I was fond of 'em. I'm just not afraid of 'em like you are. Can you tell me why its such an urgent issue to you and said redneck? You're awful worked up about it but it seems we're doing pretty good on managing that border without extra "concrete" being applied. The immigration ploy is only serving to rile up the rednecks and get them to shoot a) people they think are immigrants and b) shoot each other and claim it was immigrants.

But before you have the chance, YES THERE ARE VIOLENT IMMIGRANTS. There are violent Americans, too, and they're inflicting MORE damage than the immigrants are. So maybe, just maybe, there's a different issue to be thinking of there. I dunno, what could it be...


Quote:That bullshit you just floated about failed industries was enitrely due to cheap imports, and industries exporting production (jobs) thanks to NAFTA and a large pool of acronymed trade agreements I cant begin to describe.

I was still talking about coal/energy. Those industries should be allowed to slowly die while we focus on training and education that reflect more realistic modern economies. I admit to not being a scholar on free trade, but cursory reading on the economic effects of our free trade agreements are that they're pretty much net neutral on jobs. Manufacturing will always favor developing countries with lax rules. But we're even seeing that China now coming around. They're fighting to maintain their advantage. It'll shift to some other developing nation and they'll suffer the same fate as we are. But we've already seen some industries, like the cattle industry, become dependent on free trade. And who do you think cattle ranchers like to vote for. Yep... the same people who are gonna revoke the free trade agreements and kill their exports. Since I know you're wondering, this is the only industry I have an example of. 


Quote:So tell me, what does a redneck hillbilly like best about his/her manufacturing job going to China?

Again, projection. Seems like you should be answering that.


Quote:Why don't you go down to Home Depot and see where that drywall sheetrock came from.  Then the tile.  Then the high end vinyl flooring.  Not sure about the paints, tell me where they came from?

They come from somewhere with more lax regulations and worker safety. I never disputed that. My fault for not being 100% explicit there and leaving room for your imagination to run wild.


Quote:And the blah blah racist twitterspeak is the FAKE NEWS political disotortion machines working on you.

Uh-huh. Don't tell you buy in to the fake news bullshit. You're smarter than that. It'd be a real let down if you're on board with #45's dilusions of persecution. And tell me how the hell Brietbart and InfoWars even deserves a seat at the big boy news table. Please please please tell me how legit they are.


Quote:Immigration bans on 7 countries and WAAAAHHHH ANTI IMMIGRANT WAAAH.

And here we go off the rails. Adding more shit to the pile so that you can dilute the argument. But I'll play.
The blanket ban was unconstitutional. Letting a paranoid delusional orange trample our constitution is not the way to solve problems. That is to say that there is a problem. It is hard to immigrate to this country any more. And we've had more people killed by WHITE EXTREMISM in this country than we have by any other type, but it sure makes for good news, don't it? The ban was stupid. The ban was wasteful. The ban was a distraction. But I suppose you'll blame that on fake news too, if only to just keep calling me a bedwetting liberal. So sad. Does the world look horrible through orange colored glasses?


Quote:You really yave conflated islamic terrorism with racism?  I didn't realize just how stupid you got on me because of your twittering.

Please, show me how I've conflated that. I'm all ears... and really curious too. I had no idea I could conflate those. This should be quite the educational event. School me, bro.


Quote:But bro, you are just straight lost.  No wonder you are so confused.  You, my friend, have been brainwashed by the debate in the NEWS MEDIA.

Which you seem to think represents intelligent discourse?  Are you fucking seriously this brain dead?

You have... you have bought in to the fake news argument. I'm dumbfounded that you're so teh dum, or are these just alternative viewpoints? I look forward to your enlightening words, though. I await your wisdom of how Trump, Bowling Green and the Republicans are the victims here. How you think that his corporatism is different and better than other corporatism. How his cries of "We've done nothing wrong, but that guy is fired. And so is that guy. Hey look a moose lamb ban" is good for the country and worth of American politics. We already had a credibility problem in our politics, but this sinks us to a new low. But apparently you're not seeing anything wrong here. That's quite interesting. How much are you willing to denigrate yourself here to play along? I'm so curious...

You need to entirely reframe your thoughts above.  The original position you took was that the only people that voted from Trump were redneck hillbillys that got duped.  You speak as if they should have voted for Hillary, because they were conned.

ALL of the points above were about why a redneck hillbilly would NOT vote for Hillary and WOULD vote fro Trump.

All of them are REASONS.  And ALL of them are VALID.

Jobs lost.  Industries decimated.  It's the economy stupid!  Does Hillary want to make America Great Again?  Does Hillary support insane bullshit free trade agreements that lead to job loss?

Illegals perceived as something requiring political action.  Does Hillary perceive the border as a problem?

Terrorism and Syrian refuge flight perceived as something requiring political action... is hillary going to put the "bad dudes" away?  Do you think Trumpp is going to shut down GitMo?

By the way, why is GitMo still open?  HOPEY CHANGEY

ACA perceived as a mess despite its good intention EVEN BY THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT.  Major healthcare providers are pulling out of the "market place" left and right.  How does a redneck hillbilly feel about having to change insurance policies, then loose his job to China, is now "surrounded" by and competing with new immigrants legal and otherwise for jobs, and finds his premiums went up to boot.

In fact, it seems you do not even understand the world that the redneck hillbilly Presidential election squad seems to live in.
02-26-2017, 05:21 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-26-2017, 05:22 AM by more or less.)
Post: #50
RE: I'm warming up to this Trump guy
Additional subpoints, Breitbart and Infowars are another liberal noise machine obsession talking point.

No one cares.  Blah blah blah Faux News.  Blah blah blah CNN.  Blah blah blah MSNBC.  24 hours a day bias machines designed to sell prescription drugs and cars to their viewers.

And yet you, who claims to be educated and at least pretends to be "politically aware," don't know who Joseph Nye is, do you?

Who is Joseph Nye?  Who subscribes to his newsletters?


Forum Jump: